D&D General Critical Role: Overrated, Underrated, or Goldilocks?

[Ancalagon]

Also, unlike most, I do play with other professional actors (though not the whole group), and I can confirm that the acting alone is not the only difference. Playing for an audience is just very different than playing for each other.

Monty Martin of the Dungeon Dudes/Drakkenheim series said the same - the "stream effect" - it "forces" you to be in character much more.

 

[OB1]

Look, I honestly do not understand why people who supposedly love the show are so ... determined to denigrate the achievements of the people who do it. More importantly, I truly believe that people don't realize just how much work (in terms of prep time, and in terms of talent + repetitions + hard work over the course of a life) goes into making something "look easy."

If there are people who do this, it's not me. Has anyone on these boards actually said this?

Let me be clear. The crew of CR is exceptional at what they do. It isn't easy. But it is also a real D&D game, and there are lessons I learn from watching them. Not to be just like them, but to take what they do that I like and can change in my own game to make my game better.

YMMV. As it does. But I think it's almost tragic that Matt Mercer is so good at making people see what they believe is their idealized version of their home game, that many of them don't realize ... that it isn't their home game.

Again, who's saying this? Who are these 'many'? I watch CR and watch and listen to a few other D&D live-play streams and podcasts not because they are like my home game, but because they are entertaining and also give me inspiration for my game and aspiration to push my limits as far as I am able. Not to be like them, but as part of the always evolving process of becoming a better DM for my players and the game we want to play.

 

[Retreater]

Sure! I mean, I like watching professional football. I also enjoyed throwing the pigskin around with friends.

...but I didn't think that my throwing the ball around with friends was the same as professional football. In fact, as someone who played (poorly) in school to a certain level of achievement, I am always panifully aware of how much better the professionals are.

There are many things that people watch professionals do that can inspire them! Good for them; but watching (say) Gordon Ramsay chop up some quick vegetables and insult some diner owner doesn't mean that your burnt offerings of pop tarts are going to be the same.

Look, I honestly do not understand why people who supposedly love the show are so ... determined to denigrate the achievements of the people who do it. More importantly, I truly believe that people don't realize just how much work (in terms of prep time, and in terms of talent + repetitions + hard work over the course of a life) goes into making something "look easy."

"Yeah, that Tom Brady? I coulda won all those rings. No big deal. He just got lucky. Playing a game."

YMMV. As it does. But I think it's almost tragic that Matt Mercer is so good at making people see what they believe is their idealized version of their home game, that many of them don't realize ... that it isn't their home game.

The way I see it (continuing your analogy), watching Critical Role isn't the same as watching professional athletes play football. It's like watching a Twitch stream of people playing Madden on XBox.

 

[Bolares]

But it is also a real D&D game

Also, no one in this thread is saying that it isn't. Saying CR is not your game is not the same as saying it is not D&D... It's just not the same as our D&D

 

[Deset Gled]

I mean, I find this long post entertaining. Maybe it just isn't your cup of tea?

I'm going to come to jgsugden's defense here, because I can relate and I don't think it's a complaint specific to this one post. It's a trait of many, many thread openings from Snarf. And it actually makes me less likely to take part in a discussion I would otherwise engage in. You know that feeling when you look at a thread with an interesting title, then realize it's already 20 pages long? You're left with the choice of spending way too long reading stuff you know is meaningless trying to catch up with where the thread has gone, or just jump in ignoring 95% of the thread? That's basically how I feel about one of Snarf's threads after the very first post. And the end result is that I'm less likely to join in because Snarf is essentially making the barrier to entry of the thread too high. I know it's not intended as such, but it sometimes comes across as a form of gatekeeping; if you want to discuss this topic, you must endure this meandering wall of text to get to it.

That being said, I have never once in the past confronted them about this for exactly the reason you mention. It's not my thread, and I have no business telling another poster to change their writing style around my preferences. But since we're already half a dozen posts into discussing the meta-issue at this point, I feel empowered enough to throw in my two cents. So, @Snarf Zagyg , keep doing what your doing, I don't expect the world to change around me, and some people like it. But it would definitely help if you could add some sort of a summary or a TL;DR at the end of your posts. Some of us (maybe just me?) are more likely to join in if you do.

 

[Mort]

When I see a statement like this, I see people saying Matt's style of game is similar to what they run at home. FEW of us have the resources to have the terrain or the time to flesh out a world like Matt does - and very few of us have his level of skill. But the style of game is run by many groups.

Saying that home games can't be in the style of Critical Role is a disservice to those games.

Absolutely agree.

And I'll add when Mercer started, he didn't have any of the fancy terrain, It was flat hand drawn maps. The game didn't suffer in the least.

Frankly, I think the fancy terrain and miniatures are more product placement than necessary gaming tools.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

That's the truth of it - a whole lot of work goes into each episode, that isn't seen. That and a whole lot of years of practice, failing, trying again, studying. Like any skilled professional, they make it look easy because you don't see everything that goes into it, that went into it to get to that point in their career. It's like the skilled guitarist that we don't see at home fumbling over the new fancy chord structure that's going to blow our minds when they finally get on-stage to play it.

The brilliance of it all is that they make it look ... easy. But that's why they are good. That's why they are professionals. That's why they get paid the big bucks.

In the words of Ash Williams, "Cool guy, not cool guy, I'm the guy with the gu...wildly successful actual play series, Amazon deal, and 11 million dollar Kickstarter."

But see, that's the cool thing to say. So by saying you're not cool, you're actually asserting how cool you are. Like smoking clove cigarettes, the irony is that you know it isn't cool and therefore, you're cool.

Yes, yes it was.

Ugh. High school was a hellscape.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Yeah, I've read that. Most of the time I've someone using "The Mercer Effect" in a discussion, it is just a fancy way of disguising their gatekeeping

This is what Matt Mercer himself had to say about the Mercer Effect:

Seeing stuff like this kinda breaks my heart. Regardless, the fact of the matter is our style of play is just that...our style of play. Every table is different, and should be! If they just want to “copy” what we do, that’s not very creative nor what makes the game magic at the table.

I DO believe that it’s important for any gaming group to discuss expectations early into a campaign so everyone can get on the same page and avoid dissonance. However, it’s EVERYONE’S responsibility at the table to provide and add to the experience for everyone to enjoy themselves and the story, not just the DM. As I saw some comments below mention, you want a particular style of game? That level of commitments rests on YOUR shoulders. Consolidate your style and wishes with those of the other players and DM, and somewhere in that unique mix you will find your table’s special style of storytelling.

Need I also remind your players that we are a table of professional actors, and I have been DMing for well over 20 years. We have spent our lives training in particular skills that allow us to get as immersed in the characters as we enjoy doing. Anyone can jump in as deeply, should they wish to, but EXPECTING that immediate level of comfort and interest is unfair and absurd. Do they want a deep, convoluted emotional journey like Scanlan? They better be able to bring it like Sam did. No? Then sit down and just have fun finding your own path.

PLUS, our style isn’t for everyone! Hell, just scan the comments below to see how many folks don’t like us, haha. I’ve played with many different players, ran games of many different styles and focuses, and I can tell you... there is so much fun variety to how a TTRPG can be played, they’re limiting their chances to enjoy it by trying to “play it just like us”.

Anyway, I say the best course is have a very frank conversation with them about these things. Clearly say that your game will feel like YOUR game (meaning you and the players together), and it’s THEIR responsibility to bring to the table what facet they want to see in it. Show them this post, if it helps. In fact, show them this message:

“Guys. Relax. Your DM is kicking ass, and is doing this for YOUR enjoyment and journey. Appreciate that, listen, build with them, and make this something UNIQUE. Abandon expectations and just have fun together as friends.”

Anyway, so sorry. Things like this are never my intent. It’s a weird, wild west these days. Your gonna be great, friend. <3

Source


I emphasized (underlined) the part that I think tends to get short shrift in these conversations, but I think all of it is valuable.

 

[Charlaquin]

My games are pretty close to Critical Role, so I never bought into the whole "They are paid actors, and your group can't be as good" part.

I don’t think “they’re paid actors and your group can’t be as good” is even in the same galaxy as Snarf’s point.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So, @Snarf Zagyg , keep doing what your doing, I don't expect the world to change around me, and some people like it. But it would definitely help if you could add some sort of a summary or a TL;DR at the end of your posts. Some of us (maybe just me?) are more likely to join in if you do.

TLDR:
The past and present wilt—I have fill'd threads, emptied them.
And proceed to enlarge my vocabulary for the future.

Commenter up there! what have you to confide to me?
Look at my avatar while I snuff the position I just held,
(Talk honestly, no one else hears you, and I will write a minute longer.)

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)