Critical Role Is Critical Role Scripted

OB1

Jedi Master
I dont think its fully scripted, more that its a performance. This is a show that provides them most of their income.
CR is a big business, they all make several million a year from it. So all decisions and actions in game are based upon playing to the audience.
While I think it's fair to say that some decisions and actions in game are based upon playing to the audience, I would argue that the vast majority of their decisions and actions are based upon what they find fun. Even in a live show, where that percentage is a bit higher as they feed of the energy of the crowd, it's still way more the latter.

The place where they are trying to grow their business is by reducing their reliance on WotC IP and 5e style gameplay in general, which I would argue is actually hurting their viewership numbers and leading to dissatisfaction with C3 among many long time fans.
 

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deadman1204

Explorer
While I think it's fair to say that some decisions and actions in game are based upon playing to the audience, I would argue that the vast majority of their decisions and actions are based upon what they find fun. Even in a live show, where that percentage is a bit higher as they feed of the energy of the crowd, it's still way more the latter.

The place where they are trying to grow their business is by reducing their reliance on WotC IP and 5e style gameplay in general, which I would argue is actually hurting their viewership numbers and leading to dissatisfaction with C3 among many long time fans.
I imagine its like improv. They have a general idea and have practiced, but each time it comes out different. In the case of CR, they choose characters and actions that bring drama or reactions they think the audience will like. That doesn't make them "bad", improv is a skill. CR are obviously very good at what they do.
This also doesn't mean they don't enjoy what they are doing either, its obvious they have fun too.
 

Oofta

Legend
I don't think anyone has had much trouble understanding me. Though there are some RPGing techniques that some of those who have replied to me don't seem to be familiar with.



So, upthread I said - of a mooted approach to GMing prep - that "To me it seems a bit railroad-y."

You might infer from that that it is describing something that is "more linear than I personally prefer", although I don't really know what "linear" means here, given that all play is linear in the sense that this event of play comes after this previous event of play, generally (except I guess in the most avant garde RPGing) following the arrow of time (flashback-type techniques not withstanding).

I don't think it's insulting to convey that I don't especially care for what some others might consider "a perfectly normal style of play". I've read plenty of modules that instruct the GM on how to make decisions, and how to manipulate hitherto-unrevealed backstory, in order to bring pre-determined events or characters onto the stage. These same modules are, presumably, oriented towards perfectly normal styles of play (given that they are being commercially published by TSR or WotC or other publishers). I don't think that precludes me from explaining that, and why, I don't especially care for them.

As for what I consider "railroading", the previous paragraph is a good enough first approximation: the GM making decisions, and manipulating hitherto-unrevealed backstory, in order to bring pre-determined events or characters onto the stage. The key idea is that it is the GM who is deciding what the shared fiction is about. The alternative is that the players play a key role in deciding what the shared fiction is about.

What sort of material?

Obviously, "fronts" are a type of prepared material. But they are not the preparation of "plot points" or "story beats" or "character spotlight moments". And it is that sort of prep that I described as seeming a bit railroad-y to me.

On the issue of GMing without prepared material - it's reasonably straightforward, and I've done it on numerous occasions. Systems used have included Cthulhu Dark, Wuthering Heights, In A Wicked Age, and Burning Wheel. And I've GMed AD&D, 4e D&D, Torchbearer 2e and Classic Traveller where the only prepared material has been creature/NPC stats.

Even where prepared material might include, say, a map; or a world's stats (I've rolled up worlds in advance as prep for GMing Classic Traveller); or a description of a situation (say, a knight blocking the way through a forest clearing - this one is from Prince Valiant); that is not the same as preparing "plot points", "story beats" or "character spotlight moments".

I don't know what sort of improvisation you have in mind.

But if you're asking, "Do I regard RPGing as railroading if the GM has decided, in advance, what the key events or antagonism or resolutions will look like?" then the answer is yes,

My reason for querying the notion of improvisation here is that I regard it as somewhat inapt. RPGing is conversation, and one doesn't normally describe non-scripted conversation as improvised. I mean, I had a conversation today with a friend at work - each of us more-or-less spontaneously said things, and responded to what the other had said, without rehearsal or significant anticipation or preparation. But it would be unusual, I think, to describe us as improvising. We were just conversing.

RPG systems structure the conversation in various ways - eg who gets to say what when - and they focus it in various ways - by establishing fictional elements and a fictional context for what we say. But within those structures and guided by that focus, spontaneous conversation in RPGing is not any more difficult than it is with a friend.

What seems to me a bit railroad-y is where the GM tries to plan out their part of the conversation in advance.

After the event, then unless literally nothing happened in the play session, there will of course be a series of activities that the PCs engaged in.

The issue is, who decides what those activities are (or will be), and when do they decide this? When I read about the GM preparing and laying breadcrumbs, for instance, the picture that I take away is of the GM deciding in advance what they would like those activities to be, and using various methods to get the players to have their PCs engage in them. The "adventure hook" is a fairly well-known example of this. The GM "preparing an adventure" often seems to be taken to mean identifying a whole suite of such activities, and associated/facilitating events, and then getting ready to lead the players into and through them. And this is what I am calling "a bit railroad-y".

There are plenty of people whose preferences in RPGing are fairly similar to mine, although some of them no longer post on ENworld. And there are plenty of fairly well-known RPGs that are intended to provide structure and focus to make the spontaneous conversation easier and more interesting.

So, in the same way that you think I don't match "just about anyone else" so I feel that you don't match "just about anyone else". I find that it's incredibly straightforward to get players to write goals and aspirations and thematic ideals for their PCs. Mostly, just by asking them to do so.

Who said that players are "random number generators"?

I agree that players have a sense of story, and want to collaborate in creating the fiction. That's why I don't really like the GM planning out, in advance, what their own contribution to the conversation is going to be.


So I'll give one example. I'm giving this example not because it's definitive, or the best alternative, but because it is (i) illustrative and (ii) fairly straightforward to explain.

In A Wicked Age is a RPG written by Vincent Baker (who, later on, designed Apocalypse World). The game comes with a list of oracles - 4 thematically-grouped lists of 52 characters, places, events etc. At the start of the session, the group decides (using whatever means they prefer) which oracle to draw from, and then deals 4 cards from an ordinary deck, and reads those oracle entries.

Then, everyone goes around the table, identifying a character who is stated, implicated or suggested by the entries. After everyone is happy that all the characters have been identified that they want to identify, the players choose one to be their PC, and the GM gets the rest. There are then rules for statting up - the GM's characters are more simple than the players', as makes sense given the GM has to stat up a bunch. Then everyone chooses some best interests for their characters - the point being to choose best interests that implicate a character into conflict and dynamic relationships with other characters. (Eg last time I GMed a session of In A Wicked Age, one of my NPCs had as a best interest to acquire the gold of one of the PCs; another PC had as their best interest to ally with a particular NPC; etc.)

Once the characters are ready to go, the GM starts by framing a scene. The GM advice in the book is brief but effective, and focuses on different approaches to scene-framing so as to modulate the intensity and immediacy of the conflict in the scene. There are rules for resolving declared actions. And advice on how to build scenes on previous scenes, and resolutions of actions, so that matters move towards a resolution of characters' best interests (whether by success or defeat).

There are further bells and whistles for this game - eg how players can have recurring PCs across sessions - but what I've outlined above is the gist of it. It self-evidently does not depend upon the GM preparing anything at all, and certainly doesn't require preparing "plot points", "story beats" or "character spotlight moments". I've GMed it for RPGers with decades of experience across multiple systems, and for teenagers whose only experience is a bit of 5e D&D. And I can report from that experience that the system works to produce colourful characters, and engaging situations, and wacky hijinks, and resolutions for the characters whether happy or sad.

To reiterate, this is just one reasonably clear example of play that is not railroad-y, and where the conversation between players and GM is spontaneous. It's not the only way that can be done. (And while I think it's a clever and fun system, it's not my favourite FRPG.) But it shows that it can be done.

(If you're interested in more elaborate thoughts, that go beyond this one example system, this thread might be interesting: Advice for new "story now" GMs)

First, modules are their own thing and too limiting and linear for my taste. Because of their nature you either have what amounts to a restricted setting supplement or you have a linear campaign where certain things must happen to move the story forward. For the former, Dragon Heist seems to be that kind of module, you have factions, things the factions are doing, how the PCs can interact with the factions. But some DMs are terrible at running those kind of things, so a lot of modules are more linear. I don't have a problem playing them because I understand the restriction.

But saying that any system that doesn't have an equally shared fiction is a railroad is insulting because you know what the term means to most people. D&D is not a designed as a shared narrative and never has been. Railroading is not defined by a game that has limits on player influence on the shared world to what their PC does. Railroading means that it never matters what the PCs do, predefined events still happen.

That you continue to use the term railroading, to me, either shows lack of understanding or a holier-than-thou dismissive attitude. I'm not sure why else you would not simply accept that other people find you labeling standard style of play is far different from planning out potential plot points and scenarios.

It's fine that you don't like a core tenet of D&D. It's not okay in my opinion to continue to use a term people find offensive to paint the vast majority of D&D games being played in a negative light.
 

Clint_L

Legend
I agree that players have a sense of story, and want to collaborate in creating the fiction. That's why I don't really like the GM planning out, in advance, what their own contribution to the conversation is going to be.
I think we define what the DM is doing radically differently.

What I see Matt Mercer doing, and what I do myself, is preparing a setting, focusing on the areas in which the players are mostly likely to focus in the near future. Preparing a setting, for me, means understanding the history of the place and the principle actors within it, especially their motivations.

An example: in my home campaign, the party decided to take a job dealing with some sort of mysterious creature allegedly harassing a nearby swamp village. They had other options, but for various reasons, that gig got their attention. Okay, so I know, but they don't, that the creature is a froghemoth working for a hag. And her beef is with the villagers, who in order to make money off the burgeoning appetite for frogs legs amongst wealthy toffs, are over-harvesting and hurting the ecosystem (I had recently watched The Muppet Movie and shamelessly stole the idea). Prior to this, the hag and villagers had a fairly copacetic relationship.

And then the players show up, and try to figure out the situation and how to deal with it. They wound up tracking down the hag, and somewhat predictably fighting her, and killing the froghemoth. But then they figured out the whole story, so they wound up making a deal with the hag to basically make reparations, and a 5-6 game arc came out of that, part of which tied into one of the characters backstories, because the character was suffering under a curse and it made sense to the player that a hag would know about curses.

Was that railroady? The original story hook was dangling out there for the players to seize, and I had already created the basic situation, and then added more as the relationship with the hag developed. To me, that is not "the GM planning out, in advance, what their own contribution to the conversation is going to be." I had no idea where things were going, nor that the swamp job was going to lead into a weeks-long arc that would ultimately resolve one key aspect of a character's backstory. I put the pieces in place, but the players decided what to do with them.

What I see Mercer doing is similar: it's having all the pieces ready, and then reacting to what the characters do with them. He doesn't know what they are going to do and reacts to them in real time, but at the same time he understands that they want to participate in a shared story and are likely to go in particular directions. In fact, in the current campaign of Critical Role it remains an open question whether the party will ultimately ally with or fight against the entity that has been mostly in an antagonistic role to this point. It's been given a viable point of view, much like the hag above.

This is different from, say, an adventure module where the story has to progress in a certain way. I am currently re-writing the new Vecna adventure to make it much less prescriptive, for exactly this reason.
 

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
Supporter
Wrenching the thread back on-topic for a moment. I've been part of an actual play podcast and YouTube show for nearly 4 years. Scripting is - I won't say an "accusation" that comes up a lot, but listeners and viewers do sometimes ask us if the show is scripted. Typical example in the comments thread for this episode:


I think it’s more likely to come up as a question when most or all of the players and DM doing the actual play are professional actors who can deliver dialogue clearly and have performance instincts - and in some cases an ability to improvise strong dialogue. Also just a good technical sound mix and knowing how to stay on mic and avoid cross-talk/share focus. Actors are also more open/less reserved emotionally and more comfortable making choices that regular players might feel too shy or embarrassed to go for at the table. All of these things can make an actual play feel more “polished” than a home game, which may lead folks to think it is somehow more “scripted” or “planned” than home games are.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Mod Note:
Someone reported the "railroad-y" comment as threadcrapping. I dismissed that at first, but then came back to take a look...


So, upthread I said - of a mooted approach to GMing prep - that "To me it seems a bit railroad-y."

You might infer from that that it is describing something that is "more linear than I personally prefer", although I don't really know what "linear" means here, given that all play is linear in the sense that this event of play comes after this previous event of play...

This rang a bell. So, I used the search tool on your username, and the word "linear". In point of fact, you have taken part in several discussions concerned with "linear" play, and used the term yourself.

Indeed, from you, June 3, 2022:


All RPGing is linear: one things happens, then another, then another, starting at A and ending at B.

But not all RPGing is "linear adventures". To be honest it's not a concept I've ever mastered, because I think applying requires drawing distinctions I'm not very sensitive to, but at a minimum I think some concept of pre-authorship of the B is involved.

So, with all due respect, you've essentially had this discussion before. The assertion that you don't know what it means then looks, at best, like sophistry.

At worst, in light of how this thread has turned since your "railroad-y" comment.... it starts to look rather like sealioning, a form of trolling.

I cannot assert you intend this. But the effect is a problem, regardless. The entire thread has been hijacked, and tensions are starting to rise.

Folks, maybe walk away from this one, and go back to discussing Critical Role, specifically.
 



CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
I haven't watched much Critical Role. I did see their Candela Obscura episodes and the players seemed to get confused and make silly assumptions and engage in typical player behaviours, so no, not scripted. Other than better voice acting and focussing, not that different from our table. 😊
I'm a pretty good DM, and I love my players.

Even so: I wish I had half of Mercer's talent, and I wish my players had half of his players' focus. :) Critical Role is my idea of "perfect play" D&D.
 

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