What If...?

[MarkB]

Not to be picky, but I do believe that road should have had a no passing sign due to the curve ahead. Absolute point is also done in the remake of the Time Machine. Save the girl, no point in building the time machine.

I haven't seen that one, but Doctor Who did a lot to popularise the "fixed point in time" concept. I think the episode "Father's Day" is the best example of tackling exactly the themes present in this episode, and for me, it pulled it off with more emotional resonance than the What If episode.

The other example that comes to mind is the anime series Steins;Gate. That one goes into much more detail, especially regarding the extreme personal cost of trying to shift or undo that one precipitating event, and it does so while consistently delivering emotional gut-punches along the way.

 

[Rune]

My only problem with the episode is fundamental. I simply do not believe that the Dr. Strange who is still a surgeon would turn to mysticism for any reason other than as a last resort to restore his self-identity as a god-like surgeon. Which this episode posits is never taken from him.

Of course, this episode does posit that he is significantly different enough that he can apparently maintain a relationship, but he is not so different in personality that he isn’t about to receive an award for an incredible (miraculous?) procedure he successfully performed.

One thing is consistent about Dr. Strange. He is a man of faith, and that faith is in his own abilities. I don’t think the inciting incident of this episode calls them into question. But I’m willing to be convinced otherwise…

 

[MarkB]

My only problem with the episode is fundamental. I simply do not believe that the Dr. Strange who is still a surgeon would turn to mysticism for any reason other than as a last resort to restore his self-identity as a god-like surgeon. Which this episode posits is never taken from him.

Of course, this episode does posit that he is significantly different enough that he can apparently maintain a relationship, but he is not so different in personality that he isn’t about to receive an award for an incredible (miraculous?) procedure he successfully performed.

One thing is consistent about Dr. Strange. He is a man of faith, and that faith is in his own abilities. I don’t think the inciting incident of this episode calls them into question. But I’m willing to be convinced otherwise…

Yeah, also the premise of the episode is that Christine's death is a fixed point because it's the only thing that would motivate him to become a sorcerer, and if he's not a sorcerer he can't save her, thus paradox - but we already know that there's another circumstance which would motivate him to become a sorcerer.

 

[Rune]

Yeah, also the premise of the episode is that Christine's death is a fixed point because it's the only thing that would motivate him to become a sorcerer, and if he's not a sorcerer he can't save her, thus paradox - but we already know that there's another circumstance which would motivate him to become a sorcerer.

I think it’s an Absolute Point (or whatever they called it), not because it’s the only thing that could motivate Strange, but because it’s the thing that did motivate that variant. That variant of Strange was trying to do something that resulted in paradox.

Presumably, if anyone else had the ability and will to try it, they would have just created a new timeline branch.

 

[Umbran]

Yeah, also the premise of the episode is that Christine's death is a fixed point because it's the only thing that would motivate him to become a sorcerer, and if he's not a sorcerer he can't save her, thus paradox - but we already know that there's another circumstance which would motivate him to become a sorcerer.

There is a basic rule of time travel - you cannot undo events that lead you to time travel.

And within that timeline, for this Strange, the Ancient One may be correct. Events in this were different - in the movie, he was alone in the car. Here, he was with someone, and had stronger emotional attachment. He's a different person than our Strange. Perhaps it was no longer possible for him to be come Sorcerer Supreme otherwise.

 

[MarkB]

There is a basic rule of time travel - you cannot undo events that lead you to time travel.

Sure, but the Marvel universe doesn't follow that rule. When Thanos used the Time stone to reverse time in order to prevent Wanda from destroying the Mind stone, it didn't result in a paradox where he went back ten seconds over and over again only for some other circumstance to shatter the stone before he could claim it.

 

[Tonguez]

My only problem with the episode is fundamental. I simply do not believe that the Dr. Strange who is still a surgeon would turn to mysticism for any reason other than as a last resort to restore his self-identity as a god-like surgeon. Which this episode posits is never taken from him.

Unlike the movie we don’t get a scene where Dr Strange is an arrogant twat, so we have no reference for this variant being arrogant - just brilliant, in love and a risktaker. Without that fundamental arrogance his personality is defined it seems by being ‘in love’, his brilliance allows him to become a scorcerer and his risktaking leads to his choice to defy reality until its too late….

 

[Rune]

Sure, but the Marvel universe doesn't follow that rule. When Thanos used the Time stone to reverse time in order to prevent Wanda from destroying the Mind stone, it didn't result in a paradox where he went back ten seconds over and over again only for some other circumstance to shatter the stone before he could claim it.

But it probably did create an alternate timeline. The difference is that Thanos isn’t unmaking his past self.

That’s where the paradox would be.

 

[Rune]

Unlike the movie we don’t get a scene where Dr Strange is an arrogant twat, so we have no reference for this variant being arrogant - just brilliant, in love and a risktaker. Without that fundamental arrogance his personality is defined it seems by being ‘in love’, his brilliance allows him to become a scorcerer and his risktaking leads to his choice to defy reality until its too late….

I would argue that :

1: That fundamental arrogance was likely instrumental in becoming the brilliant surgeon who successfully performed a procedure so risky no one else would even attempt it.

2: That fundamental arrogance is on display throughout the episode.

Is it possible that both (1) isn’t true and (2) is a personality shift that only happens after the accident? It’s not impossible. But I don’t buy it.

 

[Ryujin]

The TVA doesn’t create the (so-called) “sacred timeline.” They just don’t prune it.

Spoiler: Spoiler for Season 1 of Loki

(Also, presumably the “sacred timeline” of the “new” Kang-led TVA we get at the end of Season 1 is a different “sacred timeline.” One that would have produced that particular variant of Kang.)

Poor choice of words on my part. I should have said something like "just leaving."