D&D 5E Beefing up Acererak for 16th level PCs?

[doctorbadwolf]

In Dave’s defense, you said “undead wyvern” which is definitely not a dracolich

Yes, I'm aware. I was responding to them saying that the dracolich is more likely to draw PC attention than the undead wyvern I suggested.

 

[dave2008]

imo a dumb undead dragon is a bit of a waste, though. And definitely not a dracolich.

Sure, but you didn't mention a dracolich. IDK, there is something horrifying to me about a dragon reduced to a lowly zombie/skeleton.

 

[dave2008]

I suspect that the good doctor, like me, spent many years with older dragons all being powerful spellcasters. 2e-3e it was more or less a given that most dragons encountered would be able to cast spells, in addition to all the other nasty stuff they could do.

Heck, I think there was a dragon even that had multiple magic wands at its disposal, too.

I skipped 2e and 3e, but 1e had spell casting dragons as an option, but didn't really give support for them. I like magically dragons, but I feel 2e and 3w went overboard IMO. I actually like the alternate spell casting in 5e, I just wish they actually provided you with the spells. Add in the lair actions (which I have allowed Ancients to use without their lair) and you get something quite magical without being to much of a burden.

 

[dave2008]

Colossus is way too big for the scene I'd set up. It had to fit inside what is basically an illegal garage/warehouse facility inside a tower in Sharn, so a huge construct worked best. Also, it was meant to be a single fight, not like, a whole adventure scaling this colossal terrain-creature.

The colossus is only gargantuan (I realize that is nebulous), it seems more the size of what you described. I had a hard time imagining a Huge warforged supporting turrets for people to operate. I guess it is possible, just creates a goofy picture in my head.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The colossus is only gargantuan (I realize that is nebulous), it seems more the size of what you described. I had a hard time imagining a Huge warforged supporting turrets for people to operate. I guess it is possible, just creates a goofy picture in my head.

That's the canon description of warforged titans. The warforged colossus is the size of a tower.

That is vastly too large for what I wanted. It's...yeah you can't put that in a warehouse in the middle of a city.

On the other hand, the warforged titan is huge, which is...definitely large enough for two medium creatures to kneel in sniper's nests on it's shoulders. It takes up a 15ft by 15ft space, which means it can be a solid 18ft tall no problem. Like this thing could barely fit in a normal home garage. The description of the Warforged Titan has two platforms, so I wasn't even adding something there, other than giving the people in them half cover.

 

[dave2008]

That's the canon description of warforged titans. The warforged colossus is the size of a tower.

Yes, that has been a problem with D&D for a long time: descriptions don't match the stats

That is vastly too large for what I wanted. It's...yeah you can't put that in a warehouse in the middle of a city.

Descriptively yes, but not in the game mechanics. Stat wise it is marginally bigger than the titan and could definitely fit in a warehouse. I was less talking about the lore and more about why not use the larger stat block. I mean 20' wide by may 25-30' is not much bigger than 15' wide and 18-22' tall.

On the other hand, the warforged titan is huge, which is...definitely large enough for two medium creatures to kneel in sniper's nests on it's shoulders. It takes up a 15ft by 15ft space, which means it can be a solid 18ft tall no problem. Like this thing could barely fit in a normal home garage. The description of the Warforged Titan has two platforms, so I wasn't even adding something there, other than giving the people in them half cover.

I get it, but again I think that is mechanics not matching the description. Professionally I am architect and deal with the size and space of humans and structures every day. So, I am probably more sensitive than most. I just think two 5' turret pods on a 15' wide frame seems a bit odd to me. That doesn't make it so, it is just weird to me.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes, that has been a problem with D&D for a long time: descriptions don't match the stats

Descriptively yes, but not in the game mechanics. Stat wise it is marginally bigger than the titan and could definitely fit in a warehouse. I was less talking about the lore and more about why not use the larger stat block. I mean 20' wide by may 25-30' is not much bigger than 15' wide and 18-22' tall.

I get it, but again I think that is mechanics not matching the description. Professionally I am architect and deal with the size and space of humans and structures every day. So, I am probably more sensitive than most. I just think two 5' turret pods on a 15' wide frame seems a bit odd to me. That doesn't make it so, it is just weird to me.

okay.

 

[dave2008]

okay.

exactly!

 

[Eltab]

IIRC there is a discussion in the Enhancing Tomb of Annihilation thread about giving Acererak different spells, and potential spell lists that create 'themes' for him (master of undead, DPR, maybe others).

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Stat wise it is marginally bigger than the titan and could definitely fit in a warehouse. I was less talking about the lore and more about why not use the larger stat block. I mean 20' wide by may 25-30' is not much bigger than 15' wide and 18-22' tall.

So, I have some time and I’m less annoyed that my DMing decisions are being put under the microscope for no discernible reason, so I’ll reply to this part.

To me, a construct the size of a big SUV is about right for what I was doing. Here’s a thing made to go to war, to be relatively easily deployed, that has been modified in design to serve the purpose of urban terror. It’s about as big as you can go and still be able to put a few of them on an airship, or one on a large skycoach, or be hidden in a convenient place, etc.

As for the platforms, you’re talking about a roughly 15ft+ wide at least half that from top to bottom, disclike torso. It’s easy for me to imagine raised shields with archer window style slots, that can fit an average human with a crossbow or war-stave. Basically, thier lower half is inside the body of the Titan, thier up half is mostly shielded by a raised “wall” like you see on emplaced gun positions in movies.

And a nearly 20ft tall, 15ish ft wide, construct with weapons on the ends of its arms the size of an average human, is pretty terrifying.

Tactically, on a grid, I didn’t need it to be gargantuan to do the job. Huge takes up plenty of space, and is big enough for PCs to crawl around on it without it basically being terrain. I’m saving that dynamic for a later fight.