D&D General What is an Adversarial Player?

Greenfield · Sep 16, 2021

This is a sort of counterpart to the Adversarial DM discussion.

What traits would you say define the "Adversarial Player"?

I've seen two flavors of this. Some player seem to play as if they were in competition with the other players, and strive to make the most powerful character. I had a player who wouldn't be satisfied unless his character had an AC at least five points higher than anyone else in the party, and hated the fact that his character could actually fail a Saving Throw.

The other sort is adversarial towards the DM. That is, they seek to "beat" the DM, often through rules-lawyering or flat out cheating. Some go so far as to try and derail the campaign, to prove that they're "better" than the DM on some personal scale.

You, of course, are free to supply definitions and/or examples of your own. That's kind of what this discussion is about, after all.

iserith · Sep 16, 2021

Does something dickish.

Claims "It's what my character would do."

Stormonu · Sep 16, 2021

I’ve encountered two versions.

A) The “Lone Wolf” player

This individual has no interest in the other players or whatever adventure the DM may have prepared. They deliberately walk off-camera to pursue their own goal, leaving the party underpowered and left to twiddle their thumbs while the Lone Wolf does their thing.

B) The “Killer Friend” player

This individual is prone to drop fireballs or other area effect spells deliberately on their own party, not out of callousness but out of actual desire in killing the other characters. Also starts PVP battles at the drop of a hat. Will destroy treasure rather than let someone other than themselves have it, will hold back to trigger every dungeon trap with the rest of the party in it and will run off with treasure to leave the players fighting the bad guys. Has been known to cast beneficial spells on enemy NPCs to make fights tougher as well, and won’t pass up a chance to betray the party to the bad guys the moment the option presents itself, or pull a “Leroy Jenkins” to alert the bad guys to the party’s presence, foiling any attempt by the party to prep for a fight..

Both can rot in hell

Greenfield · Sep 16, 2021

I've had the "Killer Friend" in games. They're a self-solving problem, when they're that blatant. The players get voted out of the group pretty quickly.

Not the character, the player. We learn, pretty quickly, that their next PC will behave the same way, because it's a player thing, not a "It's what my character would do." thing.

Had a Thief (1st Ed AD&D) who stole from the party. In character it was made clear why nobody would travel with the guy: "When I go into a fight, I have to be able to trust my companions with my life. I wouldn't trust you with my beer!"

He'd put some work into that character, and hated to lose him. His next character did better. If he hadn't, he would have been gone.

overgeeked · Sep 16, 2021

I think it mostly comes down to selfishness. Putting one’s own fun, enjoyment, and entertainment above the rest of the group is what makes an adversarial player (and DM for that matter).

I’m told optimization isn’t inherently adversarial, for example, but if they’re asked to stop for the enjoyment of the group and the player refuses, then it’s clearly adversarial behavior. Same with rules lawyers. Some level of “trying to get the rules right” is fine, taking it to the point of regularly or constantly arguing with the DM and trying to somehow win the game or beat the DM is clearly adversarial. Dicking over the party is also clearly adversarial. Thieves stealing from the party. Clerics who refuse to heal unless paid.