D&D 5E Does Heroism end a frightened condition or suspend it?

[ECMO3]

If a PC is frightened due to cause fear or dragonfear and heroism is cast on him he is no longer frightened, that is straighforward. However, does he continue to make saves on his turn (until he successfully saves) and if the heroism spell goes down due to loss of concentration is he immediately back to frightened again?

One reason this is important is I am thinking about picking up Fey Touched feat with Heroism for my Fey Wanderer. It would actually be beneficial if the ally continues to make saves as once he is successful on a save I can turn that fear and fear or charm an enemy.

RAW I think it is suspended and he continues to roll saves.

 

[Mort]

I think that's correct.

The Spell reads: Until the spell ends, the creature is immune to being frightened.

It doesn't say anything about dispelling or nullifying an existing condition. And while, nothing is said about saves - seems like you'd get saves in the same manner as the underlying effect (usually, but not always, per round).

 

[Maxperson]

If a PC is frightened due to cause fear or dragonfear and heroism is cast on him he is no longer frightened, that is straighforward. However, does he continue to make saves on his turn (until he successfully saves) and if the heroism spell goes down due to loss of concentration is he immediately back to frightened again?

One reason this is important is I am thinking about picking up Fey Touched feat with Heroism for my Fey Wanderer. It would actually be beneficial if the ally continues to make saves as once he is successful on a save I can turn that fear and fear or charm an enemy.

RAW I think it is suspended and he continues to roll saves.

There is no RAW on this really. Immunity is not defined other than as making you immune to a damage type or condition. I would rule that the frightened effect ends once the PC becomes immune to it.

 

[Maxperson]

I think that's correct.

The Spell reads: Until the spell ends, the creature is immune to being frightened.

It doesn't say anything about dispelling or nullifying an existing condition. And while, nothing is said about saves - seems like you'd get saves in the same manner as the underlying effect (usually, but not always, per round).

The issue, though, is what does immunity really mean. To me it means that the condition simply cannot exist on that PC. RAW is silent on what immunity really means, so this is a rulings situation.

 

[billd91]

If the frightening effect is based on an ongoing spell that lasts longer than the heroism, then I'd have the frightened condition reapply itself after heroism is gone. But if it's not tied to a spell or other defined/maintained magic effect, then I would think the heroism would end the frightened condition, particularly if a save would make them immune to the fear effect for a period of time like a dragon's frightful presence. Once you're not afraid of the source, you shouldn't be able to be made afraid of the source under the same conditions as making the save.

 

[ECMO3]

The issue, though, is what does immunity really mean. To me it means that the condition simply cannot exist on that PC. RAW is silent on what immunity really means, so this is a rulings situation.

This is logical because if you cast a spell like cause fear or charm person on someone immune then typically they do not save, it is just a wasted spell.

 

[Maxperson]

This is logical because if you cast a spell like cause fear or charm person on someone immune then typically they do not save, it is just a wasted spell.

There's logic and reasoning for it to go either way, really. That's just how I would do it. @billd91 would go the other way.

 

[Mort]

There's logic and reasoning for it to go either way, really. That's just how I would do it. @billd91 would go the other way.

I think his ruling is pretty consistent with what I said - just expanding upon it to a situation I didn't discuss.

Dragon fear is one of those things that IF you save you're then immune to it for 24 hours.

So:

If you failed your save but get the benefit of heroism? You're not frightened but if the fear effect outlasts the heroism spell (say the dragon smacks the spellcaster, spellcaster loses concentration and you have not successfully saved), you're frightened again - until you can save.

If heroism is active and you're targeted by the dragon fear? You're immune to the effect and don't have to save again (for 24 hours).

IMO Seems like the best interpretation.

 

[Maxperson]

I think his ruling is pretty consistent with what I said - just expanding upon it to a situation I didn't discuss.

Dragon fear is one of those things that IF you save you're then immune to it for 24 hours.

So:

If you failed your save but get the benefit of heroism? You're not frightened but if the fear effect outlasts the heroism spell (say the dragon smacks the spellcaster, spellcaster loses concentration and you have not successfully saved), you're frightened again - until you can save.

If heroism is active and you're targeted by the dragon fear? You're immune to the effect and don't have to save again (for 24 hours).

IMO Seems like the best interpretation.

There is literally nothing to interpret, though, so there can't be a best or worst interpretation. There is no rule. You would rule one way and I would rule another. There are reasons that can be used to go either way, so this is simply a "make a ruling and move on" situation.

 

[Mort]

There is literally nothing to interpret, though, so there can't be a best or worst interpretation. There is no rule. You would rule one way and I would rule another. There are reasons that can be used to go either way, so this is simply a "make a ruling and move on" situation.

Sure there is. You are interpreting the wording of the heroism spell as it interacts with the situation. The spell doesn't say anything about ending an existing frightened condition only that it confers immunity "until the spell ends..." Thus you have to extrapolate and interpret from there - and make the best ruling you can.