Have computer games ruined table RPGs?

[dreaded_beast]

...but now there are growing elements of the stuff I listed above -- number-crunching, class modulization, etc.

And that's a bad thing?

I think a later quote of yours pretty much sums up my opinion:

"Ruin. No. Social Effect. Yes." (Is this right?)

Anyway, I've always been a firm believer in having options when playing DnD or any RPG. For me, the whole point is being able to do things I couldn't do in RL. I don't see number-crunching, class modulization, etc., as a bad thing, if it lets me play the type of game I want to play.

That being said, I think that "video-game" RPGs may even have a positive effect on table-top RPGs. For myself, who was first introduced to RPGs by games like Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy (the old 8-bit NES), I knew I wanted something more, something with almost limitless options, as oppossed to the "box" of the "video-game" RPG. (While I still find fun, somewhat limiting in most respects when compared to table-top RPGs).

When a friend introduced me to DnD, I was hooked. You could say that "video-game" RPGs are what got me into DnD in the first place.

 

[lelol_barbarian]

i feel as though as the ages went on, people have gravitated towards an entirely different meaning to "rpgs". the term stands for roleplay games but a lot of rpgs nowadays don't have much, if at all and those that do don't have good roleplay. i feel as though anybody who hasn't played a decent rpg like D&D wouldn't even consider this but it has changed so much over the years and i don't even know how the term rpg has stayed at this point

 

[MGibster]

"Number-crunching, min-maximizing, strikeforce team tactics, and building new characters at higher levels" have been in gaming since the beginning, back before desktop computers existed. Remember that D&D has it's roots in wargaming, where all of that is essential to success. Those things remain an obvious playstyle choice, and there have always been gamers who choose it.

As a crusty old man, I can confirm Umbran's statement here. (I mean I'm the crusty old man here not Umbran.) Team tactics, min-maxing, number crunching, and coming up with optimum builds have been part of role playing since as long as I can remember. And for reference I started gaming when Ronald Reagan was in office. For some players, all that optimization and number crunching is one of the ways they have fun playing the game. As a player, I've been known to try to come up with some keen tactics to maximize our effectiveness when the party gets into a fight. It's part of the fun.

The clerics all cast 'buffs' now, while the wizards 'nuke' and the fighters 'tank'. I'm waiting for the day the DM explains how we meet a group of 'toons' as we're 'zoning out of town'. Or worse, the party asking what the orcs in the distance 'con' to them...

I'm pretty sure both nuke and buff were language in use by people I gamed with in the 90s at least. Prior to the rise of MMORPGs, a tank or a brick was just a big tough combatant who could take a lot of hits and dish out the damage rather than taking aggro.

I'm yet to find a PnP game with as much thoroughly detailed scope as Baldur's Gate 2 or Planescape: Torment. IME most DMs can't improvise anywhere near that well, or will resent your straying too far (assuming you're not being railroaded in the first place).

In Planescape Torment, I never had the option of lighting my head on fire and headbutting Falls-From-Grace. If the designers didn't think of something then you generally can't do it in the game. But you make a valid point. One advantage CRPGS have is the ability to jam a metric ton of details into the setting that just one DM can rarely do.

 

[Umbran]

As a crusty old man, I can confirm Umbran's statement here. (I mean I'm the crusty old man here not Umbran.)

I mean, it is a statement I made something like 17 years ago - this thread is from 2004. While I still agree with my younger self, I can't claim to have remained crustless over that span

 

[CleverNickName]

Woah, a thread from 2004? This thread almost predates 3.5E!

But to the OP's point: I can see the influence that CRPGs have had on D&D. I just don't think that's a bad thing...certainly not bad enough to "ruin" anything. It's just different, that's all.

Times change, people change, and the hobby changes right along with them.

 

[MGibster]

I mean, it is a statement I made something like 17 years ago - this thread is from 2004. While I still agree with my younger self, I can't claim to have remained crustless over that span

Holy cow, I didn't even look at the date! I can recommend some good lotions to ward off the crustiness if you'd like.

 

[Marc Radle]

I do have to say I wish all the dopey phrases like tank, healbot, skill monkey, etc. had not found their way into tabletop RPGs like D&D.

Of course, I also dislike when people say things like XP, con, and dex instead of experience points, constitution, and dexterity …

 

[payn]

I do have to say I wish all the dopey phrases like tank, healbot, skill monkey, etc. had not found their way into tabletop RPGs like D&D.

Of course, I also dislike when people say things like XP, con, and dex instead of experience points, constitution, and dexterity …

Thats weird, cause my RPG friends were saying those things before CRPGs and MMOs owned them.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Thats weird, cause my RPG friends were saying those things before CRPGs and MMOs owned them.

Some people just dislike informal language, for some reason.

 

[Argyle King]

Have computer games ruined table RPGs? I'm not talking about product vs. product, but rather the process, interaction and appreciation of people as they play the game.

As time passes, I'm seeing more and more references (here) to number-crunching, min-maximizing, strikeforce team tactics, and building new characters at higher levels. RPG character construction elements are becoming more like computer programing modules - plug in a new prestige class here, add a template there. ... It reminds me of the mouse click-click-click quick changes as you play a computer game. Maybe it's because within just a few minutes you can experiment with so many options on screen and that's being taken to the table with our friends. I don't know. I'm having a hard time clarifying a vaguely defined sense of change.

This might be more apparent to old-school gamers with many years of experience, and even the young pups among us who have the most creativity. Am I way off base?

I think a lot of that is due more to how contemporary (and typically linear and leveled) CRPGS are written than video games.

Some of the better video games I've played in recent years have been more enjoyable (to me) because they've made strides toward being less like what you describe here.

...which isn't to say there aren't games like that. MMOs certainly are.