D&D 5E Counterspell nerfed!

[Scribe]

But only for the blue player. Back when I had my big blue, mox lotus, dual land, sinkhole and other land destruction deck, it as lots of fun for me to kill people with black vice as I kept them completely landless. Not so much fun for them.

It's not fun to die to Turn 3 lethal from a Red Bolt deck.

It's not fun to have your hand shredded, and a creature kill you while you have no answer.

It's not fun to have a stalled out board state with a mass of creatures doing nothing on both sides.

It's not fun to die to an infinite combo.

It's not fun to die to a hexproof stupid boggle.

It's CERTAINLY not fun to lose to a bunch of pushed colorless creatures with stapled on enter the board or on cast effects.

I guess Magic simply isn't a very good game?

Or.

All are accepted ways to try and win the game, and it is not your job to enable the fun of your opponent.

 

[TwoSix]

I disagree. A non-spell blasty explosion hurled by a fire elemental feels the opposite of a spell. Why should a being of pure fire have to pull out bat poo and incant a spell to hurl blasty explosion?

No, I agree that a fire elemental using a blasty explosion would be different. But the Fiery Explosion in the article was tied to a spellcaster NPC.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's not fun to die to Turn 3 lethal from a Red Bolt deck.

It's not fun to have your hand shredded, and a creature kill you while you have no answer.

It's not fun to have a stalled out board state with a mass of creatures doing nothing on both sides.

It's not fun to die to an infinite combo.

It's not fun to die to a hexproof stupid boggle.

It's CERTAINLY not fun to lose to a bunch of pushed colorless creatures with stapled on enter the board or on cast effects.

I guess Magic simply isn't a very good game?

Or.

All are accepted ways to try and win the game, and it is not your job to enable the fun of your opponent.

No, but it is WotC's job to enable the fun of both players, not just the one with the control deck. And it's also WotC's job to enable the fun of both player and DM, not just the one counterspelling the others' cool stuff.

 

[Maxperson]

It's not fun to die to Turn 3 lethal from a Red Bolt deck.

It's not fun to have your hand shredded, and a creature kill you while you have no answer.

It's not fun to have a stalled out board state with a mass of creatures doing nothing on both sides.

It's not fun to die to an infinite combo.

It's not fun to die to a hexproof stupid boggle.

It's CERTAINLY not fun to lose to a bunch of pushed colorless creatures with stapled on enter the board or on cast effects.

I guess Magic simply isn't a very good game?

Or.

All are accepted ways to try and win the game, and it is not your job to enable the fun of your opponent.

And these are why I quit standard decades ago and just play limited. Much more fun for everyone(usually).

 

[Maxperson]

No, I agree that a fire elemental using a blasty explosion would be different. But the Fiery Explosion in the article was tied to a spellcaster NPC.

And I agree that's different. I mean a Drow Sorcerer using his Drow ability to levitate? Innate ability and not a spell. Uncounterable. That same Sorcerer hurling an Empowered Chain Lightning at the party? Counterable. Spellcasters should be throwing spells.

 

[Scribe]

No, but it is WotC's job to enable the fun of both players, not just the one with the control deck.

Burn isn't fun. Midrange isn't fun. Combo isn't fun. Control isn't fun.

I guess that means Magic isn't fun.

And these are why I quit standard decades ago and just play limited. Much more fun for everyone(usually).

Unless you are the one that didn't open the bomb mythic.

 

[Mordhau]

No, but it is WotC's job to enable the fun of both players, not just the one with the control deck. And it's also WotC's job to enable the fun of both player and DM, not just the one counterspelling the others' cool stuff.

If counterspelling needs to be fixed then it should be fixed.

You do that though by looking at the ability in question and making the necessary changes.

This has really nothing to do with fixing counterspell. It's just that the article was really dumb (it's interesting now that we have D&D journalism it's generally of a lower quality than the average blog post - you would think the writer would show some understanding of why WotC are actually making these changes).

It seems pretty unlikely that the changes to monster write ups was ever intended to be a nerf to counterspell (and if it was it would be a very bad one).

 

[Maxperson]

Unless you are the one that didn't open the bomb mythic.

That's true, but you still have to draw that one card and hope it isn't countered or taken out by removal.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

And I agree that's different. I mean a Drow Sorcerer using his Drow ability to levitate? Innate ability and not a spell. Uncounterable. That same Sorcerer hurling an Empowered Chain Lightning at the party? Counterable. Spellcasters should be throwing spells.

Wait a second.

A Sorcerer who had an innate ability to wiggle his finger and cause a fiery explosion is "magic"...but a Drow who had an innate ability to wiggle his nose and levitate is... "not magic"?

Is that what I'm hearing?

How is "spellcasting" somehow not "spellcasting"? Magic is magic. A Beholder isn't levitating "naturally"...it's magic. Yes, it's as easy as breathing, absolutely, but it's still magic.

Even if you look at the description of "Innate Spellcasting" in the MM, that description, to me at least, isn't making any reasonable distinction between "learned magic casting a spell" and "natural magic casting a spell" (re: "casting" vs "innate"). All it is saying is that creatures with "Innate Spellcasting" can cast magic without needing to be a 'trained wizard/cleric'...and that Innate spells often have limitations (typically 'self-only' type things...like a Drow's Levitate), and these are usually described in the text of that creature.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Maxperson]

Hiya!

Wait a second.

A Sorcerer who had an innate ability to wiggle his finger and cause a fiery explosion is "magic"...but a Drow who had an innate ability to wiggle his nose and levitate is... "not magic"?


Is that what I'm hearing?

No. The Drow has no need to wiggle his finger or utter any words in order to levitate. It's an ability. The Sorcerer class is explicitly an intuitive understand of how to cast arcane spells, with a metamagic twist.

Not all innate magic is the same. Not all innate magic = spells.