thoughts on Apocalypse World?

[Grendel_Khan]

There is a difference between interpersonal and inter- and intratribal conflict and the King of Kentucky with his motorcycle cavalry and slaves and what have you. Humans are pro-social but not necessarily conflict averse.

You can tell interesting stories in post-apocalypses born out of realistic stress-born human social structures, and stories demand conflict, which can very easily come from without or within.

Also, consider that what I'm describing as a sort ideal pro-social structure is born from (and potentiality only possible through) an apocalypse that has entirely dismantled the systems and structures of power responsible for the vast majority of human suffering and environmental degradation in the world. Consider that this makes me more pessimistic than you might think.

I'm probably overly focused these days on the climate collapse, and all of the attendant horrors already bearing down on us, so I have a hard time imagining an apocalypse that we recover from, rather than survive, in a diminished sense, and then just sorta watch get worse over time. The idea of bouncing back now seems about as likely to me as achieving FTL.

But fiction is fiction, right? And yes, in theory, the idea of a society reimagining itself for the better after a grand sweeping aside of past structures can be interesting to consider, in a Fifth Season or what-happens-after-Fight-Club way. But I'd propose that once you set a story long enough after an apocalypse that people have settled into any new sense of stability, with new structures, and the focus isn't still on fighting for survival against the odds and without with the weight of that apocalypse still shaping how people interact, maybe that's no longer a post-apocalyptic story. It's something else, maybe something very cool, but to me it feels like that would tip into other genres.

 

[Numidius]

Ready for my next campaign? It's gonna be post apocalyptic Mwa ha ha ha!!

A world of scarcity and violence!?

Not really. Farmers. Small communities goin' along quite nicely.

Oh. But they have a lot of sex, don't they!?

Love.

Excuse me?

Platonic love. Mostly. Occasionally moments of intimacy.

...as you do.

 

[pemerton]

I believe that Adam Koebel has even said that some design decisions (e.g., race restrictions in playbooks) was written to evoke these older, pre-WotC editions of D&D.

I guess this is where different perceptions of what classic D&D was about come into conflict.

Because if someone asked me what is distinctive about Moldvay Basic vs (say) 4e D&D, the fact that all the elves are fighter-MUs would not really be at the top of my list! You can change that trivially - eg by drifting to some version of AD&D or a mix of the two (like I and my friends did in the early 80s) - but on its own that won't change very much about the play experience.

(For clarity: I'm not suggesting that my perceptions conflict with your, or even with Adam Koebel's; but that they do conflict with some RPGers who see these surface-level minutiae as definitive of various eras of D&D play.)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Try telling people in countries around the world that, see, those warlords might be robbing you and committing genocide and other atrocities, with no one stopping or even slowing them down, but at some point everyone will realize that's just terribly irrational and people will band together and start doing the smart thing. Even better, once that veil of reason descends upon the land, there'll never be further spasms of irrational mayhem that decimate whole communities, because humans always act in their long-term best interests and never give into disordered and self-destructive urges.

First, someone would have to be trying to tell anyone, anywhere, ever, which…isn’t the case.

 

[Marc_C]

Reading back through this, I'm not sure if anyone answered you.

Your question is a bit like asking whether there was a good channel for seeing OSR in action. The Gauntlet talks a lot about PbtA, and they do podcasts for their plays, but I'm not sure if you can "see it in action" on their channel.

It would probably help if you pick a game that interests you. It will make it easier to narrow down the range of possible channels or streams. Avatar Legends (Avatar the Last Airbender), Masks (teen superhero), Stonetop (a Dungeon World hack for iron age "hearth fantasy" where the village gets a playbook), Monster of the Week (supernatural monster-hunting), Urban Shadows (PbtA's Vampire the Masquerade sorta) are all pretty good games to look for on YouTube for getting a grasp on PbtA.

Thanks!
I started another thread and got some answers. So far I've listened to the first 20 minutes of Gauntlet's Midnight Run session. I find it hard to watch other people play rpgs - more so when one participant slows everything down by supplying uninspired and vague answers to the questions. I'll continue tomorrow.

 

[Malmuria]

I do think that Dungeon World has an OSR vibe to it. I don't think that it plays like OSR, but it clearly was designed with OSR in mind. OSR was in full swing at the time of its making. Sage LaTorra and Adam Koebel definitely dabbled in the OSR space to various degrees. I believe that Adam Koebel has even said that some design decisions (e.g., race restrictions in playbooks) was written to evoke these older, pre-WotC editions of D&D. So it may be more accurate, at least from my perspective, to say that DW was inspired by old school nostalgia.

In one interview I saw, the way he described it was what it was like to play dnd as a kid where you didn't know or bother to look up all the rules. That is, it's really meant for the players especially to stay within the fiction as much as possible. I think it shares this with the OSR and its ever-more minimalist character sheets.

I do feel like what the player and dm needs to have in front of them (or in their head) is a good way of figuring out what's important to a game and how that game plays. For example, Matt Colvile's contention regarding 4e is that it is very very helpful to set up a VTT to automate a lot of the math in the game, vs trying to track it on paper. That's kind of a barrier to play for me, mostly because I end up tracking things not for myself but for half the table that can't figure out the rules. Along those lines, I tried to watch Colvile's 4e game on youtube, and, yeah, it's kinda just him messing around with software for two hours? Maybe it will pick up later.

 

[niklinna]

Ready for my next campaign? It's gonna be post apocalyptic Mwa ha ha ha!!

A world of scarcity and violence!?

Not really. Farmers. Small communities goin' along quite nicely.

Oh. But they have a lot of sex, don't they!?

Love.

Excuse me?

Platonic love. Mostly. Occasionally moments of intimacy.

...as you do.

Actually sounds interesting to me. Lots you could do with that.

 

[Numidius]

Actually sounds interesting to me. Lots you could do with that.

Check out the new game by Vincent & Meguey Baker, Under Hollow Hills

 

[niklinna]

Check out the new game by Vincent & Meguey Baker, Under Hollow Hills

Ooh. The setup is very specific, but the hooks are many, and juicy.

 

[pemerton]

In one interview I saw, the way he described it was what it was like to play dnd as a kid where you didn't know or bother to look up all the rules. That is, it's really meant for the players especially to stay within the fiction as much as possible. I think it shares this with the OSR and its ever-more minimalist character sheets.

I can kinda make sense of that. Just for myself, I don't see that as going OSR - because those classic D&Ders were bringing a lot of wargaming experience to the table!