D&D 5E Counterspell nerfed!

[UngainlyTitan]

I think it's more a case of special actions being like NPC class abilities, so Kelek has a special class ability to cause explosions, and then he has a spell list since he's a caster. You can Counterspell the spells, but not the "class ability."

Edit: For those of you who are arguing that these magical actions are spells and can therefore be Counterspelled, are you also okay with things like Malleable Illusions and Illusory Self being Counterspelled by NPCs?

Not necessarily but powers with the spell keyword, I have no problem with.

 

[J.Quondam]

I think it's more a case of special actions being like NPC class abilities, so Kelek has a special class ability to cause explosions, and then he has a spell list since he's a caster. You can Counterspell the spells, but not the "class ability."

Right. But some are saying that every damage spell has been turned into an ability like that is Witchlight., which would really mess up a lot of these spell interactions people are concerned about. (I don't have the book, so I can't check.)
I'm just noting that the new warpriest stat block suggests that the designers might have stepped back from that for the new MoM.

 

[Maxperson]

Not necessarily but powers with the spell keyword, I have no problem with.

So are you saying that if an action said, "Fireball" you would allow that to be Counterspelled?

 

[J.Quondam]

While the NPC's have magical power that are in the actions section some of these powers have the keyword ranged or melee spell. So with the exception of counterspell or Globe of Invulnerability these would seem to could as spell for the mage slayer or paladin aura purposes.

Ah, that's interesting. I didn't know about the explicit use of keywords like that.

 

[Maxperson]

Right. But some are saying that every damage spell has been turned into an ability like that is Witchlight., which would really mess up a lot of these spell interactions people are concerned about. (I don't have the book, so I can't check.)
I'm just noting that the new warpriest stat block suggests that the designers might have stepped back from that for the new MoM.

I don't have it, either, but if that's the case then it is a cluster. Spells should be spells, but things that have been misclassified as innate spellcasting in the monster books, should be changed to actions. A lot of innate spellcasting just doesn't make sense. Those few "spells" make more sense as magical actions.

 

[Maxperson]

While the NPC's have magical power that are in the actions section some of these powers have the keyword ranged or melee spell. So with the exception of counterspell or Globe of Invulnerability these would seem to could as spell for the mage slayer or paladin aura purposes.

I missed this before my last response to you. Yeah, if they had the keyword spell in there, then those would be Counterable.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

While the NPC's have magical power that are in the actions section some of these powers have the keyword ranged or melee spell. So with the exception of counterspell or Globe of Invulnerability these would seem to could as spell for the mage slayer or paladin aura purposes.

If it's a melee or ranged spell attack, it still doesn't mean it's a spell. Some things use that wording without being spells, like a Star Druid's Archer form.

 

[Mort]

I think it's more a case of special actions being like NPC class abilities, so Kelek has a special class ability to cause explosions, and then he has a spell list since he's a caster. You can Counterspell the spells, but not the "class ability."

Edit: For those of you who are arguing that these magical actions are spells and can therefore be Counterspelled, are you also okay with things like Malleable Illusions and Illusory Self being Counterspelled by NPCs?

Sure, that's exactly how it looks. But it's irritating because his "special abilities" are spells.

Lets say you took the feat mage slayer and find yourself next to Kelek.

He uses fiery explosions. Since it's "not a spell" you 1) Don't get to smack him like you would if he cast fireball. 2) don't get advantage on the saving throw, like you would if he cast fireball.

Ok, then it's your turn. You attack Kelek you would hit but he uses "arcane defense" (which is identical to shield but it's not shield, it's arcane defense - a special ability) Now if he had cast a spell you would then get to use your reaction (if you still had it) to try to smack him again - but it's "not a spell" so you can't. It's irritating.

 

[Maxperson]

If it's a melee or ranged spell attack, it still doesn't mean it's a spell. Some things use that wording without being spells, like a Star Druid's Archer form.

I don't agree with that. I would allow the Starry Form Archer attack to be countered. The Archer form is essentially giving you a new cantrip for its duration.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I don't agree with that. I would allow the Starry Form Archer attack to be countered. The Archer form is essentially giving you a new cantrip for its duration.

But it's not a cantrip at all, that's just to show that some things use spell attacks without being spells. I can't think of any others off the top of my head, but I'm sure there's more.