D&D 5E Why are non-caster Ranger themes so popular?

[niklinna]

The paladin and bard clearly stole the ranger's class feature budget, so all they got was scraps.

Pretend the valor bard used Wisdom for casting, reskin bardic inspiration as good advice, and song of rest as "healing herbs", and it is pretty clear how underpowered the ranger is when you have a full 9 level caster, with the same 2 attacks you have, at the cost of 1hp a level.

I think the ranger should at least get a proper pet first lol. Drakewarden at least looks non-terrible.

Well, what you said above has me thinking the ranger is unsalvageable; a proper pet would be the barest of starts. And you've really hit the nail on the head with something I've felt about 5e all along: I'm drawn most strongly to Bard (forgive me, Snarf!), Druid, and Ranger, but each of them offers only part of the feel I actually want, and shoves in other things I don't want, and no straightforward way within the system to address that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the ranger should at least get a proper pet first lol. Drakewarden at least looks non-terrible.

IMO, taking the Beast of The XYZ and giving it its own action is all the BM needs to have a proper pet.

 

[niklinna]

For example, if you get an animal companion, you're practically obligated to take the upgrade feats to keep your pet viable in combat.

That…sets my teeth on edge. I’d be all for a Ranger that chooses its class features like a warlock with Invocations, but feat chains…pls no.

Yeah, it's pretty obnoxious. I did not last long with PF2E. (Although I was playing a Druid, fwiw...but I did have an animal companion as a Druid. And a familiar! Familiars in PF2E are just weird.)

 

[Hussar]

Are you implying that rangers can't craft mundane snare traps because there is nothing in their class mechanics that specifically discusses snare traps?

Any reasonable DM should adjudicate favorably for any PC Ranger looking to set a snare trap via mundane means.

The design decision for 5e was to make things like this simple. A rule for every possible action leads us down a path which one might find... er... makes things very un-5e, IMO.

And, therein lies the rub.

Virtually no DM will allow the ranger to craft a trap that is even remotely close to something like the damage of Glyph of Warding. The best trap the Ranger can craft will do, d4, d6 damage and maybe, maybe a chance to restrain with a DC that is probably laughable. So, our 5th level caster can drop a trap that is 1000 times more deadly than anything a 20th level ranger can craft.

I do see @Minigiant's point here. It's not so much that we can't have non-caster rangers but rather that non-casters can never, EVER equal casters.

 

[Hussar]

I gotta say, I prefer the ranger to have some kind of supernatural/uncanny abilities, but even so I don't find the logic of the preceding pages arguing why they must have it to be very...well, logical.

That's because it's not logical. It's all about feelings. And the general feeling of the community is that anything that is non-magical must be strictly inferior.

So, sure, your rogue can stealth, but, magic will always be better.

Sure, your fighter can deal damage, but magic will always be better.

Your ranger can set traps, but, at no point will those traps be anything more than a minor inconvenience compared to what magic can do.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The thing about 5e Rangers is that a lot of the time they're not really rangers.

Their subclasses are designed to turn them into something else, an underdark hunting master of shadows and darkness, a fey diplomat, a planes wandering teleporting around guy etc.

It feels like all those things could probably be classes, or equally subclasses of other classes such as Fighter or Rogue just as easily.

5e seems somewhat embarrassed by the Ranger.

I’m at a loss as to how any of those are not Rangers? The Fey “diplomat” is a guardian of the places where the Feywild is closer to the Material. That’s a Ranger. The Gloomstalker is a Ranger in dark places. The Horizon Walker is a a Ranger that guards places where the other Planes are accessible, or possibly a Ranger from one of those planes.

Those are all Ranger concepts.

 

[niklinna]

IMO, taking the Beast of The XYZ and giving it its own action is all the BM needs to have a proper pet.

Yes. A (sub)class's central schtick should be exceptional—literally the defining feature that they get to do that nobody else gets to do. Sure, conjured/summoned minions and familiars require a bonus action, but not the Ranger's companion. That advantage in action economy is something that can be balanced out by the relative potency of all the other (sub)class features.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes. A (sub)class's central schtick should be exceptional—literally the defining feature that they get to do that nobody else gets to do. Sure, conjured/summoned minions and familiars require a bonus action, but not the Ranger's companion. That advantage in action economy i something that can be balanced out by the relative potency of all the other (sub)class features.

Hell yeah. Agreed 100%.

 

[Minigiant]

One thing I attempted back in 3.5 was to have the ranger class chose an alliance. Bsically every ranger group would be allied with another. Druids or the Military would be the most common. Fey, Assassins, Wizards, Alchemist, and Clerics wuld be other options. Each alliances would grant different things. In 5e it would be...

Tier1
Druid: Spellcasting. Druidic language.
Military: Superiority Dice. Maneuvers. Heavy Armor.
Alchemist: 1 Infusion. Potion craft (1d8)
Assassins: Sneak attack 1d6. Posioncraft (1d4)
Clergy: Spellcasting. Domain spells.
Wizards: Spellcasting. Spellbook.

Tier 2
Druid: Spak with animals and Spell with plants at will
Military: More Superiority Dice Maneuvers.
Alchemist: 1 more Infusion. Potion craft (2d8)
Assassins: Sneak attack 3d6. Posioncraft (3d4)
Clergy: Channel Divinity: Foebane. 8d6 to Favored enemies.
Wizards: Cantrips

Tier 3
Druid: Can learn Druid spells.
Military: Superiority dice double vs Marked or Favored Foes..
Alchemist: 1 more Infusions. Potion craft (5d8)
Assassins: Sneak attack 5d6. Posioncraft (5d4)
Clergy: Divine Smite
Wizards: Can learn any Divination wizard spell.

 

[Mordhau]

I’m at a loss as to how any of those are not Rangers? The Fey “diplomat” is a guardian of the places where the Feywild is closer to the Material. That’s a Ranger. The Gloomstalker is a Ranger in dark places. The Horizon Walker is a a Ranger that guards places where the other Planes are accessible, or possibly a Ranger from one of those planes.

Those are all Ranger concepts.

The issue is that if you want to play the classic ranger you only really have the hunter as a basic choice. Everything else is more of a multiclass in concept and departs from the basic archetype in some major ways.