D&D 5E Why are non-caster Ranger themes so popular?

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I dunno, Order of the Stick got quite a lot of mileage out of Roy's death that one time. (Oops, spoiler.) But then they handwaved it the next time a PC died, so.... (Oops, another spoiler.)

I think ignoring the rules for resurrection kind of prove my point heh.

Similarly, all the piddly crap rangers get pales in the face of magic. Find the Path goes brrr.
5E rangers are in a sorry state, being a druid that traded obscene utility for a second bow shot that barely keeps pace with cantrips.

 

[niklinna]

I think ignoring the rules for resurrection kind of prove my point heh.

Similarly, all the piddly crap rangers get pales in the face of magic. Find the Path goes brrr.
5E rangers are in a sorry state, being a druid that traded obscene utility for a second bow shot that barely keeps pace with cantrips.

Gimme a druid with a proper pet and all will be forgiven.

(Not really.)

 

[Mordhau]

The thing about 5e Rangers is that a lot of the time they're not really rangers.

Their subclasses are designed to turn them into something else, an underdark hunting master of shadows and darkness, a fey diplomat, a planes wandering teleporting around guy etc.

It feels like all those things could probably be classes, or equally subclasses of other classes such as Fighter or Rogue just as easily.

5e seems somewhat embarrassed by the Ranger.

 

[Composer99]

I like this approach. Link please!

I'll see if I can find it. That particular discussion happened months ago.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I'm saying most DM have no experience in natural adventure, man hunting, nor outdoorsmanship.

And I'd wager that you'd be right.

So with no guidance, you are setting most DMs up to fail as they have to make stuff up with no knowledge.

Hmm. Do most DMs have real life experience with swordfighting or thieves tools or cliff climbing or [enter D&D adventurer skill here]? Methinks not. Yet somehow it all works. YMMV.

What kinds of traps can a 1st level ranger craft?

What kinds of traps can a 3rd level ranger craft?

What kinds of traps can a 6th level ranger craft?

What kinds of traps can a 12th level ranger craft?

What kinds of traps can a 17h level ranger craft?

Those are the Tiers in 5e. The issue with the Non-spell-casting is the community cannot agree on nonmagical feats of nature lore, hunting skill, and survival knowledge. We do agree mostly on spells and we have guidance, tables, and manuals on spells. So WOTC used spells.

We can't even agree on which level a ranger should be able to flawlessly tame a wild animal.

Why is it necessary to agree when the DM is empowered to make fair adjudications? In other words, the play loop - along with ability checks as appropriate - seems to take care of these types of things at many tables. Spells can be helpful in the game but are not a requirement for Getting Stuff Done (TM). I mean, I understand the desire to have more written guidance on specialized topics, but 5e is not the game that provides it out of the box. Perhaps there's something on the DMs Guild or DriveThruRPG that would help scratch that itch for your table?

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

The thing about 5e Rangers is that a lot of the time they're not really rangers.

Their subclasses are designed to turn them into something else, an underdark hunting master of shadows and darkness, a fay diplomat, a planes wandering teleporting around guy etc.

It feels like all those things could probably be classes, or equally subclasses of other classes such as Fighter or Rogue just as easily.

5e seems somewhat embarrassed by the Ranger.

The paladin and bard clearly stole the ranger's class feature budget, so all they got was scraps.

Pretend the valor bard used Wisdom for casting, reskin bardic inspiration as good advice, and song of rest as "healing herbs", and it is pretty clear how underpowered the ranger is when you have a full 9 level caster, with the same 2 attacks you have, at the cost of 1hp a level.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Gimme a druid with a proper pet and all will be forgiven.

(Not really.)

I think the ranger should at least get a proper pet first lol. Drakewarden at least looks non-terrible.

 

[J.Quondam]

LOTR and D&D fiction are incredibly unrepresentative of the D&D game. Mostly because easy access to magic, and healing/resurrection magic in particular, is narratively unsatisfying to read/watch, as the stakes from combat are reduced significantly. "It's a bummer Boromir died. That cost us some diamond dust and a whole third level spell to get him back. Now we have to budget and eat hard tack. THANKS BOROMIR. "

Tabletop D&D is it's own genre.

Yep, it is; that's certainly a legitimate point.
But the OP question is why the idea of a spellless ranger is popular, not whether it's practical in D&D. And the answer to that is that a lot of people's idea of "what a ranger is" derives from non-D&D genre works of fiction such as Tolkein. (And many of those works of fiction were huge influences on D&D itself, obviously!)

 

[Minigiant]

Hmm. Do most DMs have real life experience with swordfighting or thieves tools or cliff climbing or [enter D&D adventurer skill here]? Methinks not. Yet somehow it all works. YMMV.

They don't need it.

The DMG and MM provides the challange and their escalation of difficulty for swordfighting, trappicking, and climbing. The DMs don't have to know. The books provide the information for DMs for a uniform.

5e did not provide rule for most natural hazards until Tasha's Cauldren of Everything (FIVE YEARS AFTER THE DMG) and most of them are spells.

When 5e finally provided wilderness challenge escalation, it used magic spells. That's why the ranger has spells.

Why is it necessary to agree when the DM is empowered to make fair adjudications? In other words, the play loop - along with ability checks as appropriate - seems to take care of these types of things at many tables. Spells can be helpful in the game but are not a requirement for Getting Stuff Done (TM). I mean, I understand the desire to have more written guidance on specialized topics, but 5e is not the game that provides it out of the box. Perhaps there's something on the DMs Guild or DriveThruRPG that would help scratch that itch for your table?

Because like you said, most DM have know idea what rangering is. Neither do most players. So there is no common ground to base anything around.

One DM might make a avalanche DC 15 Strength to avoid 1d10 bludgoening damage.
One DM might make a avalanche DC 18 Strength to avoid 1d10 bludgoening damage.
One DM might make a avalanche DC 10 Strength to avoid 1d6 bludgoening damage.
One DM might make a avalanche DC 20 Strength to avoid 2d12 bludgoening damage and 3d6 cold damage each round buried.

You can't have a base non-spell-casting ranger if nobody knows nor can't agree on what an appropriate non-spell nature exploration challenge is. And that's why they isn't one.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not everyone wants to play a pet class though, so having the taming baked into the base class feels like a non-starter.

Why would anything I’ve described lead to a pet class?

Yeah, I get the scaling issue. Maybe if the ability could only be used on creatures within a specific (but low) Intelligence range?

Absolutely my intent, yeah.

Looking through the lists of Monstrosities, those with low Intelligence "feel right" to me, in terms of Rangers grokking them, and the more intelligent ones not as much. Same with Fiends (although fewer candidates.)

Yeah like if a balgura has a low enough Int (I don’t recall), why not let Rangers have a bonus to calming them and convincing them to leave the party alone?

P.S. Although I still think I'd want a sub-class specific to Dragons that extended these abilities to that type, despite their Intelligence. I just love it thematically. (Gotta admit I also liked that recent sub-class from WotC.)

Hell yeah.

For example, if you get an animal companion, you're practically obligated to take the upgrade feats to keep your pet viable in combat.

That…sets my teeth on edge. I’d be all for a Ranger that chooses its class features like a warlock with Invocations, but feat chains…pls no.