D&D 5E Respect Mah Authoritah: Thoughts on DM and Player Authority in 5e

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
I think this completely misses a huge place where players have narrative control in 5e -- spells. Spells are packages of narrative control that players can deploy and the effects happen. The GM is, without blatant and obvious execution of Rule 0 to force their preferred outcome, bound by the effects of the spell. Some spells have grey areas, or require negotiation between player and GM on outcomes, but the effects of the spell are still binding on the GM as far as narrating outcomes go. This seems to get overlooked in discussions of authorities in D&D. I'm not sure why.
 

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MarkB

Legend
It's funny - I really like some systems that give players a lot of narrative control, like Blades in the Dark, but when I'm playing D&D I much prefer to know that I am playing my character, not any part of the wider world.

I remember a discussion in another thread, ages ago, about running investigation-based adventures, in which the scenario under discussion was the PCs searching a house for a hidden document. One suggestion was that if a player rolled particularly high on their Investigation check when examining a particular location, such as a desk or cupboard, the DM should narrate that this was where the document was. I hated that concept. If I as the player was taking my character through searching the house, I didn't want my success or failure dictated by my die roll re-shaping the reality of that situation - I wanted to know that, if I did find the document, it was through my deduction based upon my knowledge of the suspect and of what would make a good hiding place, not just because I got a lucky roll, and if that meant I came up empty in the search, that's just the way it goes.

I've softened on that a little these days, but I still do prefer my character's interactions with the world to be framed in terms of their own capabilities, at least when I'm playing D&D.
 

TheAlkaizer

Game Designer
Good article!

I've got a question though. I agree that it's kind of expected that players have authority over their characters. But I can't help but think that they don't have authority over some facets of it. For example, what do they character know?

It happens very often in my sessions that a player will ask me "Would I know about that because of [...]?" and I have to adjudicate. This is in relation to their Backgrounds (chosen from the book), their character's background which they wrote themselves and just general common sense related to the worldbuilding.

I'm wondering what others think about this? And is there other areas of a player's character where they don't have full authority?
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Good article!

I've got a question though. I agree that it's kind of expected that players have authority over their characters. But I can't help but think that they don't have authority over some facets of it. For example, what do they character know?

It happens very often in my sessions that a player will ask me "Would I know about that because of [...]?" and I have to adjudicate. This is in relation to their Backgrounds (chosen from the book), their character's background which they wrote themselves and just general common sense related to the worldbuilding.

I'm wondering what others think about this? And is there other areas of a player's character where they don't have full authority?

Great question.

So when I say that the default assumption in 5e is that players have full authority over their character, what I mean is that they have the full implied authority derived from Step 2 of the Play Loop- what I refer to as Rule 1.

The Player can choose to roleplay the character in any manner they want and make any decision they want.

That's why, in D&D terms, it's anathema for a DM to say, "No, your character wouldn't do that."

What asking what the PC knows is where we get to the play in the joints- what can the player narrate about the world itself? Here, what can the player decide that the PC "knows" about the world?

I don't think that there's a set answer- I think that some tables are fine with the player authority to make that determination, and some table defer to the DM (and often some kind of roll) to make those determinations. I don't think that there is a single "right" answer. IMO.
 



R_J_K75

Legend
what do they character know?
I'm wondering what others think about this?
I always rule this on a case to case basis based on common sense. A player telling me they are a cleric for example, I have skill "x" or 'y" and also have this background I would/should know this doesnt always work when Im DMing. Some information is just beyond their knowledge no matter what their class, background or skills known.
 
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payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
Good article!

I've got a question though. I agree that it's kind of expected that players have authority over their characters. But I can't help but think that they don't have authority over some facets of it. For example, what do they character know?

It happens very often in my sessions that a player will ask me "Would I know about that because of [...]?" and I have to adjudicate. This is in relation to their Backgrounds (chosen from the book), their character's background which they wrote themselves and just general common sense related to the worldbuilding.

I'm wondering what others think about this? And is there other areas of a player's character where they don't have full authority?
As GM, I'll often tell a player what their PC might know if its not obvious to the table. This works well for giving hints to players who seem stuck at the moment. I also encourage my players to ask what their character knows about the situation and/or subject as a good way to interact with the setting.
 

Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
I think within the context of D&D in particular the more interesting question is how much authority do players have to define their aims rather than just their actions. Who sets the agenda for play basically?

What about backstory authority? Who gets to define where characters have been? Who they know? What sort of existing relationships they have?
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
That being said, I need to share the most outrageous story about player agency ever, we had been captured by an army, and one of the players (he was a very lucky guy, nicknamed "Moulux Jones", for his luck, carefree manner and slightly couch potato style) asked the DM if, perchance, as he had been in an army too, he would know one of the officers. The DM asked him to roll a d100 twice and told him that if he gor 00 twice, he would indeed know the officer...

00

00

"So, this guys is actually my best pal from the military academy of Greyhawk..."
 

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