I guess if you misrepresent yourself materially in some agreement. I don’t imagine it’s protected in the same way that it’s illegal to impersonate a police officer or conduct surgery.
TSR LaNasa is back, and working with TSR Hobbies
I think it only counts as fraud if it is somehow material to business.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
For it to be fraud, it would have to follow these steps.
(1) a representation of fact;
(2) its falsity;
(3) its materiality;
(4) the representer’s knowledge of its falsity or ignorance of its truth;
(5) the representer’s intent that it should be acted upon by the person in the manner reasonably contemplated;
(6) the injured party’s ignorance of its falsity;
(7) the injured party’s reliance on its truth;
(8) the injured party’s right to rely thereon; and
(9) the injured party’s consequent and proximate injury.
I'm not sure what business deal could rely on the company being an LLC, but there might be some ways for it to happen out there.
Misrepresentation in business is a bit easier, but still has the same issue.
- First, the defendant made a material representation of fact to the plaintiff;
- Second, the defendant knew at the time he made the representation that it was false;
- Third, the defendant meant for the plaintiff to rely on the false statement;
- Fourth, the plaintiff did in fact so rely on it, and the reliance was justifiable; and
- Fifth, that in relying on the false statement, the plaintiff suffered injury or loss.
LordEntrails
Hero
They probably plan to file the paperwork for an LLC. But maybe its just not that important to them or they are waiting to actually make enough money to cover the cost?
Whatever the case, lack of doing so along with all their other exhibited behavior just verifies the type of people they are.
Whatever the case, lack of doing so along with all their other exhibited behavior just verifies the type of people they are.
Willie the Duck
Hero
Not a lawyer, just a guy with an MBA, but the rule of thumb was if you misrepresented yourself and then money changed hands or a business transaction occurred through the mail (yes, I am dating my expertise pretty strongly here), boom, then things got criminal. Just calling themselves an LLC but then not doing anything businesslike is on par with Bill from Bill&Ted being "William S. Preston Esq." without having a JD (or the reasons you are an esquire in the UK, etc.) .
A good guess, or at least that might be the plan if they go ahead with becoming any kind of content creators/goods distributors. It still feels like the current plan is still milking donations from the people who love the victimhood angle while they figure out what they are actually capable of long-term (if there is any long term above next month's bills).
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
There might be other laws that I'm unaware of, not being an attorney, either, but if you look at both the elements of fraud I posted above(criminal) and misrepresentation(civil), damages need to happen. If I misrepresent myself to you as an LLC, you give me money, and then I uphold the agreement and you get what you were entitled to, you were not damaged so no fraud or misrepresentation(tort) occurred.
Mail would bring federal law into this and I'm even less familiar with federal law.
Willie the Duck
Hero
It might not be fraud per se, then, although damages is always a tricky one with a kinda expansive interpretation at times. You falsely say you are a licensed electrician and install wiring in my house perfectly, I'm still damaged.
There are some pretty intricate rules regarding mail (and credit card) fraud that we really shouldn't even stab at without a lawyer weighing in (although that might violate forum rules, I know it does on other RPG forums). All I know is those were the kind of things my professors always treated as third rails/how they'd get ya (so don't do it) kind of things.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
What are the damages? What have you lost simply by the work being done by an unlicensed person?
Now, if you subsequently hire a licensed person to double check the work, those costs would be damages, but if you don't and just accept the work, you aren't out anything.
Yeah. Because they can easily result in damages, but actual damages(financial harm) are required.
Willie the Duck
Hero
I now have a house I can't sell.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Why can't you just get a new electrician to fix the issue? But yes, if it's preventing the sale of a house, those are damages. It's costing you money. However, not all instances of an unlicensed electrician doing work will cause damages.
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