D&D 5E What do you think of Fizban's races, subclasses feats and spells?

[Paul Farquhar]

Can we at least acknowledge that your expeirence is abnormal?

It's the current design paradigm for WotC. I would consider a game where 1-4 was a significant part of the campaign an abnormal experience. The game is largely designed around 5-9.

First off, let me point out that any DM who ever had their players go through Descent into Avernus has had their players fight enemies resistant to physical damage all day long.

I haven't played Descent, but if a majority enemies are resistant to physical damage that cannot be overcome by magical weapons that's pretty poor design.

Again I point out that a situational ability should not be always better better than using a sword. But there is a good chance of encountering PB situations where it is useful per long rest - rather more than once per short rest, since on those occasions it is useful you will probably want to use it more than once.

Not everyone makes choices on their race based on what is the most optimal

But you can't make sub-optimal choices then complain an ability is underpowered.

just pick acid

Most oozes are immune to acid.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's the current design paradigm for WotC. I would consider a game where 1-4 was a significant part of the campaign an abnormal experience. The game is largely designed around 5-9.

In two normal length 4 hour sessions? Again, no. Yes, the sweet spot of the design is 5 to 11, I'll grant you that, but even WoTC adventures don't have you going from level 1 to level 5 in only two sessions.

I haven't played Descent, but if a majority enemies are resistant to physical damage that cannot be overcome by magical weapons that's pretty poor design.

Again I point out that a situational ability should not be always better better than using a sword. But there is a good chance of encountering PB situations where it is useful per long rest - rather more than once per short rest, since on those occasions it is useful you will probably want to use it more than once.

So now we have switched from "resistant to physical damage" to "resistant to physical damage that can't be overcome by magical weapons". I think the fact that you had to shift those goal posts highlights why your original point was problematic.

And, AGAIN, I'm not saying that is should always be better than using a sword, but it is fair to say that it simply does not do good damage for the type of ability it is.

But you can't make sub-optimal choices then complain an ability is underpowered.

Which isn't what I'm doing. I'm looking at the whole of it, and assuming the damage types basically account to a wash.

Most oozes are immune to acid.

I'd forgotten that, but Oozes are generally not top of the "mass of enemies" list. They are fairly rare and generally a bit on the weaker side.

 

[ECMO3]

I haven't played Descent, but if a majority enemies are resistant to physical damage that cannot be overcome by magical weapons that's pretty poor design.

They are generally resistant to non-magical, however there are very few magic weapons (or for that matter magic items) in the campaign, virtually no place to buy them and not enough money if you did have a place.

The four 13th level characters had only magic item (a Vicous Staff) until last session. Last session we picked up an awesome legendary sword that is a major plot item, so we have two magic weapons now. It is possible there are a few magic weapons we missed but I am sure there are not many we missed. We did compensate with spells like shadow blade and magic weapon.

It is not just magic items that are missing, we have few spell components and therefore things like revify or Greater restoration are not options. I actually used almost all my funds to buy a pearl to use for identify at an early level when we were still in Baldur's Gate, and it is a good thing because there has been no place to find it in Hell.

I picked up Protection from Good and Evil since we assumed we would be fighting a lot of devils and demons, and we have, but we can't get any holy water for it (and my DM rules it is one vial per casting). There is a pool of holy water we found but we could only take so much from it, so I ration the use of this first level spell for the really tough battles.

I love the campaign and it has been pretty awesome but it certainly it is a much different feel from other games I played where by 8th level or so you have reached your atunement limit and have the best nonmagical gear money can buy.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In two normal length 4 hour sessions? Again, no. Yes, the sweet spot of the design is 5 to 11, I'll grant you that, but even WoTC adventures don't have you going from level 1 to level 5 in only two sessions.

Read The House of Lament in VGR.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Read The House of Lament in VGR.

I just skimmed it, I think this is the most important line. Also the first line.

"“The House of Lament” is an adventure for a party of four to six 1st-level characters, who will advance to at least 3rd level by the adventure’s conclusion."

3rd level... not 5th level. Which supports my point. Also, looking at the flow chart, since there are at least three seances, I'd say it is planned to be at least three different sessions.

So, how is this meant to disprove my points?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I just skimmed it, I think this is the most important line. Also the first line.

"“The House of Lament” is an adventure for a party of four to six 1st-level characters, who will advance to at least 3rd level by the adventure’s conclusion."

3rd level... not 5th level. Which supports my point. Also, looking at the flow chart, since there are at least three seances, I'd say it is planned to be at least three different sessions.

So, how is this meant to disprove my points?

I've played it. It took 5 hours to complete, and leaves the players ready to advance to level 4.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I've played it. It took 5 hours to complete, and leaves the players ready to advance to level 4.

Okay, so you played it and did so quickly. That doesn't mean that WoTC designed it to take 5 hours and leave you on the cusp of level 4.

 

[Amros]

They are generally resistant to non-magical, however there are very few magic weapons (or for that matter magic items) in the campaign, virtually no place to buy them and not enough money if you did have a place.

The four 13th level characters had only magic item (a Vicous Staff) until last session. Last session we picked up an awesome legendary sword that is a major plot item, so we have two magic weapons now. It is possible there are a few magic weapons we missed but I am sure there are not many we missed. We did compensate with spells like shadow blade and magic weapon.

It is not just magic items that are missing, we have few spell components and therefore things like revify or Greater restoration are not options. I actually used almost all my funds to buy a pearl to use for identify at an early level when we were still in Baldur's Gate, and it is a good thing because there has been no place to find it in Hell.

I picked up Protection from Good and Evil since we assumed we would be fighting a lot of devils and demons, and we have, but we can't get any holy water for it (and my DM rules it is one vial per casting). There is a pool of holy water we found but we could only take so much from it, so I ration the use of this first level spell for the really tough battles.

I love the campaign and it has been pretty awesome but it certainly it is a much different feel from other games I played where by 8th level or so you have reached your atunement limit and have the best nonmagical gear money can buy.

I think this is totally intended; you go to Hell (literally), so you either survive on your own, or thanks to those sweet and helpful devils who offer you nice goodies.
When I DMed the Descent, I totally loved tempting my players with Infernal Contracts. When you face a grim doom, maybe that Bone Devil is not so evil anymore, and you accept to do some job for it in exchange for some magic weapon to turn the tide; maybe even your soul, if you can save Elturel thanks to it. And of course, you also have the Soul Coins as currency.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Okay, so you played it and did so quickly. That doesn't mean that WoTC designed it to take 5 hours and leave you on the cusp of level 4.

It's basically goes wander round the house, skip to level 2, wander round some more, skip to level 3. Fight some ghosts. There is practically nothing to do or fight for 2 levels, then hell breaks loose. It treats level 1 and 2 as inconsequential.

Witchlight is pretty similar.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's basically goes wander round the house, skip to level 2, wander round some more, skip to level 3. Fight some ghosts. There is practically nothing to do or fight for 2 levels, then hell breaks loose. It treats level 1 and 2 as inconsequential.

Witchlight is pretty similar.

So an investigative adventure doesn't have a lot of fighting in it, and focuses on the unsettling and horror element more. Just because you feel like that means it ignores and skips levels one and two doesn't mean that everyone else feel that way, it was designed that way, or that a DM won't run it in three sessions instead of one five hour session.