D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[clearstream]

It relates based on the fact that some people are absolutely fine with any character concept and a character with a 14 or 15, whereas people wanting the FLoating ASIs are mostly doing this to obtain a16. So if someone tells me that he just wants to have the floating ASIs for a "character concept", I'm wondering what type of "character concept".

Something that doesn't seem reasonable about that view is that players can choose race to give 16 just as much as they might place a floating ASI to do so. Seeing as I've observed many players doing so in their race choice, I do not see fixed ASIs as a solution to your concern.

How are fixed ASIs a sure solution to your worry that players will ensure they have a 16? Do you just disallow 16s at your table?

 

[Minigiant]

With the evidence provided by WotC that nearly nobody plays above level 10 and the lack of interest for playing squishies at level 1-3, isn't the logical conclusion that the whole model zero to hero (1-20) isn't satisfying? Shouldn't they drop the concept of advancement and focus on the 4-9 range in term of power? After dropping classes and stats, I feel that the cumulative changes wished for would lead to a very different game.

That's what 4e did.

Also 1-20 isn't zero to hero. It's zero to epic hero. Tier 2 is hero. In 5e, hero is levels 4-10.

Indeed; and IMO those are all very poor developments which, futile though it may be, I will push back against whenever I can.

You can't do zero to hero by skipping the zero step. Personally, I'd rather skip a lot of the hero step; as while it can be fun enough I find high-level play often seems to have an underlying "this jumped the shark long ago" feel to it.

You are confused, my friend.

A level 1 PC is an Elite Zero.
You are a high school varsity star being scouted for the NBA. You are the Elite but Inexperienced. High Talent but Green. You are the son or daughter of a great hero or villain.

You're this guy.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Ultimately I would really want to see a discussion about how the game should be structured so that maxing your class' main stat wasn't always the obvious no-brainer choice. Even aside the species issue I find such homogeneity unfortunate.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

That's what 4e did.

4e was weird. On one hand it clearly codified different tiers of play, and had even additional splats to support the supposed themes. But then it also made sure that the game played and felt pretty much the same on all tiers, beginning characters were already competent action heroes. Granted, I don't think I ever played epic tier (that's what 21-30 was called right?) or at least not for long, as that was the point we finally gave up on the system and the campaign switched to Fate.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

5e already has two levels of zero and recent threads show a lot of people already want to skip that.

I for one will be happy never having to play a zero again.

Errr...excuse me?

What do you mean, 5e has two levels of zero already?

 

[Minigiant]

Ultimately I would really want to see a discussion about how the game should be structured so that maxing your class' main stat wasn't always the obvious no-brainer chose. Even aside the species issue I find such homogeneity unfortunate.

Ironically again that's what 4e did.

4e gave every class either 2 primary ability score or 2-4 secondary ability scores.
Since every race bumped 2 scores, you could likely play any race with any class and have a primary or secondary bumped. And if not, there was a class of the same power source close enough to your first choice class.

4e was the only D&D edition with warriors, priests, and mages of every ability score.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

Actually, quite a few of us would be okay with +2 fixed and +2 floating. The other side seems unwilling to engage in reasonable compromise, though.

That is no compromise. That is even more power creep, or power leap. You want +2 fixed, and +2 floating? Fine, then the 27 point array becomes 25, or 24, and the Standard Array becomes 14, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.

There is only one reason a player wants +4 to their overall stats.

 

[Minigiant]

Errr...excuse me?

What do you mean, 5e has two levels of zero already?

Level 1-2 is Tier 1 of 5e. T1 is the novice or zero tier.

 

[Vince_Snetterton]

Level 1-2 is Tier 1 of 5e. T1 is the novice or zero tier.

LOL....exactly what classes have you played?

Hedxblade is lethal at level 1. Clerics and Socerers also choose their subclass at level 1. Wizard's choose theirs at level 2.
To suggest that levels 1 and 2 are "novice or zero tier" displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.

Tier 1, by 5e's own standards, is 1-4. Do you have some difficulty RP'ing a level 1 char, that is just starting out on their adventuring career? I certainly don't. I love playing level 1's, where every combat, no matter how trivial, can end in death.

 

[Minigiant]

LOL....exactly what classes have you played?

Hedxblade is lethal at level 1. Clerics and Socerers also choose their subclass at level 1. Wizard's choose theirs at level 2.
To suggest that levels 1 and 2 are "novice or zero tier" displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.

Tier 1, by 5e's own standards, is 1-4. Do you have some difficulty RP'ing a level 1 char, that is just starting out on their adventuring career? I certainly don't. I love playing level 1's, where every combat, no matter how trivial, can end in death.

Tiers are not about lethality or specialty. It's about effect on the world due to the impact of their skills, knowledge, and talents.

A level 1 hexblade might murderize some goblins. However if they anger a generic knight, they will be destroyed easily.

At level 1, you can't affect more than a town or city level area without long term planning. Tier 1s can't stop a motivated orc chief alone. Tier 2s can. Tier 3s scoff at the idea. And Tier 4s think its a joke.

Any PC can have a battle that can end in death. What changes is what is needed to challenge them. You can have a grimy and gritty game at level 15. However you likely must travel to the 9th level of hell or a demon prince's abyssal castle.