D&D General How do you like your ASIs?

[Lyxen]

See, that's interesting, because to my mind it lowers the power gap between a casual player and an optimizer.

Not necessarily. What I see is that an optimiser WILL use the new options to create a more powerful character by before by taking into account race power synergies that he did not use before because he felt constrained by the racial ASIs, whereas a casual will not necessarily use the racial ASIs to increase the main stat, since it was not, before, a main driver of his choice.

This only works if, by using Tasha's, you somehow force all casual to use their ASIs in an optimal choice. But it's not what I prefer, I prefer options that totally lets the casual choose what they want, and that prevents the optimisers from creating too much of a powergap. And looked at it in this light, Floating ASIs are a bad option.

Said another way, to prevent the power gap increase, you have to force casuals to use their floating ASIs in a way that prevents the increase, but I'd much rather have them still free to choose whatever they want.

 

[Scribe]

Not necessarily. What I see is that an optimiser WILL use the new options to create a more powerful character by before by taking into account race power synergies that he did not use before because he felt constrained by the racial ASIs, whereas a casual will not necessarily use the racial ASIs to increase the main stat, since it was not, before, a main driver of his choice.

This only works if, by using Tasha's, you somehow force all casual to use their ASIs in an optimal choice. But it's not what I prefer, I prefer options that totally lets the casual choose what they want, and that prevents the optimisers from creating too much of a powergap. And looked at it in this light, Floating ASIs are a bad option.

Said another way, to prevent the power gap increase, you have to force casuals to use their floating ASIs in a way that prevents the increase, but I'd much rather have them still free to choose whatever they want.

I think you downplay what's going on here.

People focused on optimization first, will likely not choose a race (fixed) that doesn't work for their class.

Most will likely pick Variant Human anyway.

Those folks will maybe choose something else now, but stronger than Variant Human? Niche selections sure.

Non-Optimized players pick for any number of reasons, but in a fixed World they not only are not VHuman, but their stats will potentially not align with their class.

They may put all their ASI while leveling in a specific stat, but they will remain behind in feats or stats regardless.

Floating won't make a massive difference to optimized characters.

Floating MAY however at least let players who don't focus on optimization, make the 'correct' stat choice, at level 1.

 

[Lyxen]

Those folks will maybe choose something else now, but stronger than Variant Human? Niche selections sure.

Still, a slight increase if they find it.

Non-Optimized players pick for any number of reasons, but in a fixed World they not only are not VHuman, but their stats will potentially not align with their class.

They may put all their ASI while leveling in a specific stat, but they will remain behind in feats or stats regardless.

Floating won't make a massive difference to optimized characters.

Floating MAY however at least let players who don't focus on optimization, make the 'correct' stat choice, at level 1.

And this is exactly what I'm saying, floating ASIs only benefit casuals assuming that you force their choice at level 1. And I'm sorry, but I don't like that, why should they be forced to do anything ? What is the benefit of "floating" if, instead of floating, they become fixed by class ? The only thing that you have achieved is a general power drift, depriving casuals of choice and actually providing more options to optimisers, when there should not be any reason to reward those.

 

[Scribe]

Still, a slight increase if they find it.



And this is exactly what I'm saying, floating ASIs only benefit casuals assuming that you force their choice at level 1. And I'm sorry, but I don't like that, why should they be forced to do anything ? What is the benefit of "floating" if, instead of floating, they become fixed by class ? The only thing that you have achieved is a general power drift, depriving casuals of choice and actually providing more options to optimisers, when there should not be any reason to reward those.

I'm not saying force. I'm saying for some, race > stats.

They know the stats are wrong, and don't care.

Given a chance to both have the desired race, and correct stats?

That's a win/win.

 

[Lyxen]

I'm not saying force. I'm saying for some, race > stats.

They know the stats are wrong, and don't care.

Given a chance to both have the desired race, and correct stats?

That's a win/win.

Apart from the fact that the stats make sense with the description of the race in 90% of the cases, and they also match what the races usually look like in books/movies/show of the genre. These are players that take a race because it looks cool in their description, and who would take it whatever the stats, which is something to be encouraged at least in our campaigns. So no, thanks, I'll pass on Floating ASIs, I'd rather encourage people to make roleplaying/background/story choices than technical ones.

This is not to say that it's bad to do the contrary and increase the attractiveness of technical choices based on power, just be clear that it's the avowed target of the game.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I'm not saying force. I'm saying for some, race > stats.

They know the stats are wrong, and don't care.

Given a chance to both have the desired race, and correct stats?

That's a win/win.

Wouldn't they be even happier without any ASIs than floating ASIs? Or class ASIs.

 

[clearstream]

Once more, don't you think that there's a bit of difference between just using the standard options of the game, and requesting the specific use of an option that provides only purely technical and mechanical benefits ?

I'm seeking to understand what you think. Is it right to say that a player allocating their highest score to their primary ability is power gaming as you define it? Say if - playing a bard - they put a 14 on their charisma given that is their highest ability score. Basically, any choice that increases character mechanical power in play, is power gaming?

 

[Scribe]

Wouldn't they be even happier without any ASIs than floating ASIs? Or class ASIs.

I mean maybe? In a world where the majority cannot even see that the right choice is 'Fixed with Negative Modifiers', I wouldn't say its outside the realm of possibility that some may like to drop ASI completely.

Apart from the fact that the stats make sense with the description of the race in 90% of the cases, and they also match what the races usually look like in books/movies/show of the genre.

I'm not disagreeing or even commenting on this. For the record, I am for fixed, with negative, ASI.

These are players that take a race because it looks cool in their description, and who would take it whatever the stats, which is something to be encouraged at least in our campaigns. So no, thanks, I'll pass on Floating ASIs, I'd rather encourage people to make roleplaying/background/story choices than technical ones.

I know, those are the players I'm talking about. The question isnt if they exist, the question isnt even about the motivation, as IMO that part is also solved.

The notable thing I had not considered, is that it closes the gap at tables where both optimizers, and lets call them 'narrative' players exist.

The narrative players know the correct stats, after all I'm quite sure the optimizers would tell them all about it.
The narrative players value more, the RP/BG/Story aspect, and that is 100% fine.

In a setting in which Floating exists (and it does, officially now) the fact those narrative players can now make the 'correct' statistical choice as well as play whatever their pet race is, allowing them to keep closer to the optimizer in performance, is a net win.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

[TwoSix]

Not necessarily. What I see is that an optimiser WILL use the new options to create a more powerful character by before by taking into account race power synergies that he did not use before because he felt constrained by the racial ASIs, whereas a casual will not necessarily use the racial ASIs to increase the main stat, since it was not, before, a main driver of his choice.

Ah, but the difference in perspective (as an actual optimizer) is that we optimizers CAN'T use the floating ASIs to make a powerful choice, or at least not much more of one. There simply aren't any races where their racial benefits were so strong that we were waiting for floating ASIs to be able to use them. V-Human and/or Custom Lineage are the best choice still for like 90% of cases.

Whereas now casuals (who prioritize concept over mechanical efficiency) can make a purely concept driven choice and still have a 16 in their main stat if they so choose.

 

[Helldritch]

Ah, but the difference in perspective (as an actual optimizer) is that we optimizers CAN'T use the floating ASIs to make a powerful choice, or at least not much more of one. There simply aren't any races where their racial benefits were so strong that we were waiting for floating ASIs to be able to use them. V-Human and/or Custom Lineage are the best choice still for like 90% of cases.

Whereas now casuals (who prioritize concept over mechanical efficiency) can make a purely concept driven choice and still have a 16 in their main stat if they so choose.

That was quite easy before with fixed ASI. Beside the power creep, floating ASI changes nothing as to what race you can play. Yes, some choices are suboptimal from an optimizer's point of view but from a role play and concept PoV nothing is changed except power creep. Floating ASI are simply a disguised way to get moarrrrrr Powaaaaa! The role play and character concept are just an excuse to hide the intention. I want to play a dwarven wizard, a half orc rogue, an elf paladin in full plate but I want my sweet 16...

Nothing but that 16 ever prevented you from doing these concepts and many more but the small cost of not having a 16...

Note:" And by you, I mean your side. Not you personally." Just clarifying...