D&D General A LA CARTE Errata

[BlivetWidget]

As far as Thunderwave, I've always interpreted it as a cube that starts adjacent to the caster not a burst that surrounds them.

I guess I don't see the issue being presented here wrt Thunderwave, either by the OP or your interpretation. Thunderwave works either way, RAW.

• The range of the spell is Self (15-foot cube).
• By 5e definition, a cube's origin is anywhere on one face.
• By 5e definition, whether a cube's origin is contained within the area of effect is up to the caster.

Therefore, the caster of Thunderwave can choose to surround themselves by the cube, excluding themselves from the area of effect, or they can choose to place themselves at the edge or even corner of the cube. None of these are defined for you, you choose when you cast the spell.

 

[Oofta]

I guess I don't see the issue being presented here wrt Thunderwave, either by the OP or your interpretation. Thunderwave works either way, RAW.

• The range of the spell is Self (15-foot cube).
• By 5e definition, a cube's origin is anywhere on one face.
• By 5e definition, whether a cube's origin is contained within the area of effect is up to the caster.

Therefore, the caster of Thunderwave can choose to surround themselves by the cube, excluding themselves from the area of effect, or they can choose to place themselves at the edge or even corner of the cube. None of these are defined for you, you choose when you cast the spell.

The area of effect is under spells in the PHB, in the diagram the source is the "*". So the origin of the cube is always one side of the cube, not the center. For the caster to be at the center it would have to a sphere centered on the caster.

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Cube​

You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.​

​

A cube's point of origin is not included in the cube's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.​

Feel free to run it any way you want of course, but the rules are quite clear.

 

[Blue]

As for the spell, do what you want. Your table your rule.

As for newer books having the errata incorporated, anything that differ from my copy is nul and void. My versions always take precedence.

Please mention that to your players. Not saying you don't, just don't want that as a surprise. If I was a player and I found in the heat of a moment during a session that what was written in my books wasn't being followed because the DM had an older and more out of date copy and blanket ruled what was in mine was wrong not by intentional selection to house rule but just by an accident of when errata was made and which printing they had, I'd be rather annoyed.

 

[Helldritch]

Please mention that to your players. Not saying you don't, just don't want that as a surprise. If I was a player and I found in the heat of a moment during a session that what was written in my books wasn't being followed because the DM had an older and more out of date copy and blanket ruled what was in mine was wrong not by intentional selection to house rule but just by an accident of when errata was made and which printing they had, I'd be rather annoyed.

I have a .doc file that I print, update and give to all players. It is two pages long and the last thing said is the following:" unless previously mentionned, if in doubt about a rule, the three PHB I provide are the only ones that count as an official reference or any 1st printing of a book for that matter." All previous rules are voted upon by the entirety of the players (2 groups of 6) and me if a tie break is ever needed. Banned books are the following...."

So far, it has been 30 years and 5 editions of this little policy and it has worked out all this time. It took me 8 years to come up with it and I will not go back. It clears a lot of problems.

 

[BlivetWidget]

The area of effect is under spells in the PHB, in the diagram the source is the "*". So the origin of the cube is always one side of the cube, not the center. For the caster to be at the center it would have to a sphere centered on the caster.

View attachment 148537​

​

Cube​

You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.​

​

A cube's point of origin is not included in the cube's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.​

Feel free to run it any way you want of course, but the rules are quite clear.

Nothing you quoted at me disagreed with anything I said; did you read my bullet points or just quote me for fun? I never claimed you could somehow set the origin at the center of the cube. I said that placing the origin at your feet and excluding yourself from the effect, thereby using the cube to surround yourself, is a valid placement of the spell (I use here "surround" in the common English sense, not to say "geometrical center in three dimensions"). OP wanted to hit the "8 boxes immediately around the caster". Quite simply, they can. They didn't really explain what their rules disagreement wrt Thunderwave was in detail, so I can't say if they were completely correct or not, just that they can certainly hit the 8 boxes immediately around the caster if they want to (while also hitting the air above that, which isn't really significant 99% of the time anyway).

 

[Scott Christian]

People can take the rules and bend them. Use errata or not. Hold true to Sage advice as if it were sacrosanct or an ad-lib. No one ever seems to debate this. Yet...

There is always debate.

The primary reason is D&D is a group game. And groups need to agree. So when you keep changing things, it has a tendency to make disagreements at the table. Not arguments, but disagreements. Things like, let's use ASIs or I am playing a yuan-ti. This causes consternation within the players and/or DM.

The secondary reason is the larger gaming culture. People like it when a culture is built. That is what D&D has done. But when you consistently change things, you are bound to upset part of the culture. Are the changes New Coke or getting rid of cocaine as an ingredient? Only time will tell.

PS - And for anyone that is about to pull up to the keyboard and use the "The DM has the final say" argument. Please... for the love of god... just don't.

 

[J.Quondam]

The area of effect is under spells in the PHB, in the diagram the source is the "*". So the origin of the cube is always one side of the cube, not the center. For the caster to be at the center it would have to a sphere centered on the caster.

​

​

Cube​

You select a cube's point of origin, which lies anywhere on a face of the cubic effect. The cube's size is expressed as the length of each side.​

​

A cube's point of origin is not included in the cube's area of effect, unless you decide otherwise.​

Feel free to run it any way you want of course, but the rules are quite clear.

I think what BlivetWidget is referring to is not the center of the cube, but rather the center of the face of the cube that is on the ground beneath the caster. That would define a cube that surrounds the caster, eight squares around; or (in 3d, and excluding the caster's own volume) 25 5ft cubes forming a "shell" to all sides and above.

 

[Oofta]

Nothing you quoted at me disagreed with anything I said; did you read my bullet points or just quote me for fun? I never claimed you could somehow set the origin at the center of the cube. I said that placing the origin at your feet and excluding yourself from the effect, thereby using the cube to surround yourself, is a valid placement of the spell (I use here "surround" in the common English sense, not to say "geometrical center in three dimensions"). OP wanted to hit the "8 boxes immediately around the caster". Quite simply, they can. They didn't really explain what their rules disagreement wrt Thunderwave was in detail, so I can't say if they were completely correct or not, just that they can certainly hit the 8 boxes immediately around the caster if they want to (while also hitting the air above that, which isn't really significant 99% of the time anyway).

Just letting you know how I rule it. The spell specifically states that "Each creature in a 15-foot cube originating from you ".

In any case, feel free to rule however you want when you DM.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Last night I was playing in a remote 5E game I recently joined, and I noticed that the players and DM adjudicated Thunderwave differently than I have in games - and different from how I understand the spell. I didn't say anything because the player actually casting it and the DM seemed of accord, so there was no point in interrupting the flow of the game to question it when it was not my character doing the thing or being effected by it.

Today, I spent a little time googling the spell and people's opinions and the Sage Advice errata, and realized that my reading of the spell is apparently not what was meant by the description of the spell. But that said, I don't care. I see Thunderwave as a "get away from me!" spell that effects the 8 boxes immediately around the caster and that is how it is going to continue to be in my games because 1) It has more flavor, 2) it makes sense that a wizard would have a low level spell that would help keep them from being surrounded when melee combat and having lots of HPs is not their bag, and 3) because I see (and have always seen) errata as an a la carte menu - take some and leave some according to what works for you and your game and how you see it. If my reading of the spell is an accident, then it is a happy accident, in my view.

FWIW, I used to rule Thunderwave similar to you as well.

Although, to you point "3)", Thunderwave is not a spell that has Errata, is it? At least not that I see here: https://media.wizards.com/2021/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf

In any case, perhaps many people did rule it similarly but realized the deviation from RAW at some point - and that is why Xanathar's introduced the cantrip Thunderclap which works around the caster (only with less damage at early tiers and no pushing away on a failed save) and the 3rd level spell Thunderstep which combines the thunder with the "get away from me" (or rather, "get me away from you") sentiment.

 

[Lyxen]

I think the elephant in the room is that the proponents of "the caster can include himself in the cube" conveniently assume that by doing this the caster will not suffer the effects of the spell himself, something that there is no reason to suppose.