D&D 5E Casters vs Martials: Part 1 - Magic, its most basic components

[Asisreo]

And to better support the super hero tastes that some players and DMs have, it would be nice if WotC published a book that modified, augmented, or out-right replaced higher level martial features with more mystical/ magical super hero-like features. It wouldn't be anything I would be interested in, but I am for supporting people being able to enjoy the play style they want.

Hey, I am too. But it's kinda a fool's errand to please everyone.

5e specializes in dungeon crawling. And they're business-oriented. Their deadlines mean they have to adjudicate their time. Any time not spent on bringing a better dungeon-crawl experience is time making an incomplete game. Honestly, it seems like they're already always pressed for time.

So is there any reason why they didn't bring more options for those types of players stylistically? Maybe not. But financially, the reason was simply crunch. We can't have it all. Limited resources, unlimited wants.

 

[tetrasodium]

And to better support the super hero tastes that some players and DMs have, it would be nice if WotC published a book that modified, augmented, or out-right replaced higher level martial features with more mystical/ magical super hero-like features. It wouldn't be anything I would be interested in, but I am for supporting people being able to enjoy the play style they want.

Dyskami already did that with a point buy version of 5e & some of the Levelup character options were mentioned at various points in this thread. Rebuilding the core & converting to pointbuy like anime5e does or rebuilding like levelup does are both options for accomplishing what this thread ids calling for... but it takes far more than just a supplement to achieve such significant change, even the "anniversary edition"years off from now is intending to maintain compatibility .

 

[TheOneGargoyle]

The point is a master swordsman, master archer, high lord, barbarian king, and master thief shold be as fantastical as an archmage, high priest, and high druid.

No, they shouldn't have to be. Some players don't WANT their master swordsman to HAVE to be fantastical. And if they don't want to, they shouldn't have to. The game, the DMs, and the community should respect their wishes to be able to play a character that isn't that.

They should be able to as well, of course, if that's what they want.

 

[Garthanos]

Caster imbalance isn't a problem if you follow the six to eight encounter adventuring day! That makes casters conserve their magic, allowing martial characters time to shine.

Do you think that is at all common in practice and should be forced on the story...

I do feel like a lot of the higher level features for many martial classes are fairly lackluster. To a certain point, even some of the caster features at 12+ level aren't that great, although there are definitely notable exceptions that are great!

high level spells tend to be lackluster you say?

So is there any reason why they didn't bring more options for those types of players stylistically? Maybe not. But financially, the reason was simply crunch. We can't have it all. Limited resources, unlimited wants.

There was more on the table during play test of 5e than in release.

 

[tetrasodium]

No, they shouldn't have to be. Some players don't WANT their master swordsman to HAVE to be fantastical. And if they don't want to, they shouldn't have to. The game, the DMs, and the community should respect their wishes to be able to play a character that isn't that.

They should be able to as well, of course, if that's what they want.

You need to go deep into pointbuy systems for that sort of thing to exist alongside characters that use magic & magic items. That's not something that can simply get bolted onto the 5e phb

 

[Garthanos]

No, they shouldn't have to be. Some players don't WANT their master swordsman to HAVE to be fantastical.

They shouldnt expect to be high level in a fantastical world then

 

[Garthanos]

That's not something that can simply get bolted onto the 5e phb

Level up is trying to bolt on a lot of interesting things but they are shooting for heavy backwards compatibility and I can see limits occuring

 

[DND_Reborn]

Here's what I want:

Ok... Here we go:

I want to leap fifty feet to bisect some chump enemy soldier with my gigantic sword which makes Shadversity cry.

Monk (Kensei) using Step of the Wind.

I want to wade into said chump soldiers and literally reap them like wheat. Just mow them down, multiples per turn. Bystanders should spontaneously all agree on the words 'blood tornado' when asked to describe me.

Use the "Cleaving through creatures" option in the DMG, p. 272, or play a Hunter Ranger with Whirlwind attack.

I want to let out a battle cry that makes rank and file guys soil themselves and throw down their weapons.

Be a dragonborn with the Dragon Fear racial feat.

I want to lift my chin mockingly at the enemy general and he has no choice but to charge me to defend his honor.

Play a Cavalier with Unwavering Mark.

I want to deal with a swarm of creatures by bisecting the stone pillars of the ancient ruin and dropping it on them.

Be a raging barbarian with Indomitable Might.

I want to hit a dude so hard his allies are demoralized.

Have a DM who actually uses morale.

I want to charge in faster than the eye can track, show up behind my enemy and then all his blood explode out of him from all the stabbing I did in the intervening moment.

Nice way to narrate an Assassin's Death Strike!

I want to captain America my shield around a corner and break someone's face.

Hmm... ok, this one is tough, but given all the 5E material (official) out there that I don't know about, there is probably a way to do it.

I want to hardcore parkour my way around the enemy while filling them with poison daggers.

Again, monk... maybe with some rogue (assassin) tossed in?

I want to become the sadness of anyone who even thinks of rocking up on my friends and trying to attack them while I draw breath.

LOL no clue what this is suppose to be really...

I want to just show basic competence in combat tactics more than once per encounter (Looking at you, poor Battlemaster design).

Battlemaster with Relentless can do this 6 times and then (ok) once per encounter. And if you get in a short rest, you can do 6 again, and so forth. Guess it depends on how many encounters you have... shrug

Now, all of those might not be precisely what you were envisioning, but you can come pretty darn close just using your imagination and the rules in 5E.

 

[Minigiant]

No, they shouldn't have to be. Some players don't WANT their master swordsman to HAVE to be fantastical. And if they don't want to, they shouldn't have to. The game, the DMs, and the community should respect their wishes to be able to play a character that isn't that.

They should be able to as well, of course, if that's what they want.

They can. They have to stop gaining level after level 10 and the DM has to provide a new progression.

But saying you want to not be fantastical but be level 15 is not impossible.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Are you sure that your character couldn’t do anything like this? If the fighter/rogue is rolling 20 dice on a crit, you’re pretty high level. Let’s say level 8 (for the heck of it).

As a wizard, you cast Hypnotic pattern. Hill giants have a -1 Wis, and no Wis proficiency. You can probably also hit 2 (if not 3) giants with the spell. Unless they rolled a 17 or higher, the giants are incapacitated. Depending on how many giants there were, you just ended the combat, without needing a crit.

You can also do this 6 tomes before you need to start using 2nd or 1st level spells, like a pleb.

LOL much higher! He had 8 dice just on the sneak attack! Granted, as you can see from my post we had some serious multiclassing going on... We were actually level 20...

My PC (fwiw) finished at 20th level at Cleric 5/ Rogue 7/ Wizard 8.

Anyway, the point was the guy did over 100 damage in a single round to one opponent. My PC couldn't do that... shrug