D&D General The Tyranny of Rarity

[Vaalingrade]

There's totally such thing as this thread itself is just chock full of people saying how the DM should be in charge and have final say.

'Round these parts, pretty much everyone DMs and anyone that start talking about their 'authority' and how its their way or the highway gets to the a Forever Player.

 

[Lyxen]

There's totally such thing as this thread itself is just chock full of people saying how the DM should be in charge and have final say.

Which is, once more, what the 5e rules in particular came back to after some sort of hiatus, and for very good reasons. Note that this does not prevent discussion and in particular what should be constructive discussions between people aiming at playing a friendly, cooperative game together for pure fun. Which is why presenting it as "tyranny" or alluding at conflicts is for me not the right way to discuss this topic.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Which is, once more, what the 5e rules in particular came back to after some sort of hiatus, and for very good reasons.

IMO, the second sin of 5e after bounded accuracy.

Note that this does not prevent discussion

That's what the 'DM is supreme' folks do themselves. "I do all the work*, so I get to say what goes. My way or the highway".

*Please ignore that I reject letting the players help with the work or that this is a volunteer position.

 

[Arilyn]

In the end, what really, really annoys me there is that constant vibe of "the poor little players against the nasty powerful DM". THERE IS NOT SUCH THING, or at least there should not be any such thing, but all these posts are promoting a Player vs. GM mindset that I find detestable in what should be the most cooperative game on earth, starting with the word "tyranny" indeed.

First of all, there is absolutely nothing in the OP suggesting that GMs are jerks or that players are being oppressed. The title is "Tyranny of Rarity" not "Tyranny of the GM."

There is no promotion of player vs. GM. I honestly don't get where you are picking up on "poor little players." Excited players return to the table and if it's possible to work in a player idea that at first glance doesn't seem to fit, GMs should take some time to see how it can work. This is the cooperative end of the game you champion so fiercely. This doesn't mean that players get everything they want and it doesn't mean races should never be banned. Just a reminder to "not be hasty."

 

[Cadence]

First of all, there is absolutely nothing in the OP suggesting that GMs are jerks or that players are being oppressed. The title is "Tyranny of Rarity" not "Tyranny of the GM."

I think the OP stated things quite well (in the original and the follow-up). There are quite a few not by the OP in this thread that seem to me to be of the flavor @Lyxen was describing.

I'm not sure why what you've said in your last paragraph (the GM should try to work it in, and it doesn't mean the player has to get their way) didn't end the thread the first bunch of times people said similar things previously. Then again, it is a thread on the internet, so if we could figure out that kind of thing...

 

[Lyxen]

IMO, the second sin of 5e after bounded accuracy.

Great, don't play it then, it's not like there are no other choices. But to me it's q great quality after in particular 3e which created more entitled annoying ruleslawyers than any edition before or after.

That's what the 'DM is supreme' folks do themselves. "I do all the work*, so I get to say what goes. My way or the highway".

You are quoting only yourself, after cutting out most of my response. Don't pretend that this presents anything else than your personal views which I happen to dislike as they are cliving views.

*Please ignore that I reject letting the players help with the work or that this is a volunteer position.

And I never said that either, but please don't pretend that developing one's own character background or running the initiative has anything in common with actually preparing and running a game.

And the fact that it is volunteer does not mean that it does not come with a work which can be very large and dedicated to others. I used to do volunteer work for charity, in particular "the restos du coeur" in France, and it WAS work (and only work, actually, no specific enjoyment in the work itself apart from smiles received now and then), and it WAS volunteer.

 

[Lyxen]

First of all, there is absolutely nothing in the OP suggesting that GMs are jerks or that players are being oppressed. The title is "Tyranny of Rarity" not "Tyranny of the GM."

Don't get me wrong, I appreciated OP's answers to my criticism of the thread, that being said with the topic of the thread and a title containing tyranny (just like other threads using words such as racism) it cannot be anything else than provocative and cliving.

There is no promotion of player vs. GM. I honestly don't get where you are picking up on "poor little players." Excited players return to the table and if it's possible to work in a player idea that at first glance doesn't seem to fit, GMs should take some time to see how it can work. This is the cooperative end of the game you champion so fiercely. This doesn't mean that players get everything they want and it doesn't mean races should never be banned. Just a reminder to "not be hasty."

And again, this is a very one-sided view, how about "excited DM return to the table to present a great campaign that he has been preparing, players should take some time to see how it can work for them" ? For me, this is the way it should work at least at first, seeing that the DM has done some work maybe even spent some money on creating something for his players to enjoy.

It doesn't then prevent all the collaborative discussion but again for me the balance of everything, in particular due to work done basically for others should balance the discussion around the DM's position, that's all.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You are quoting only yourself, after cutting out most of my response. Don't pretend that this presents anything else than your personal views which I happen to dislike as they are cliving views.

No one said I was quoting you. It's things that have actually been said here.

And I never said that either, but please don't pretend that developing one's own character background or running the initiative has anything in common with actually preparing and running a game.

No one said you did. In the rest of the thread, people are talking about cooperative world design and the like hardly character backgroudn or initiative.

And the fact that it is volunteer does not mean that it does not come with a work which can be very large and dedicated to others.

It's the 'dedicated to others' part that's lacking when talking DM superiosity.

I used to do volunteer work for charity, in particular "the restos du coeur" in France, and it WAS work (and only work, actually, no specific enjoyment in the work itself apart from smiles received now and then), and it WAS volunteer.

I volunteer too; mentor abused kids, but I doubt either of us thought that meant we got to boss around the people were were serving in those roles.

 

[Maxperson]

People who hate kitchen sink settings should be all for Tasha Race Customization or more race and subraces.

This confuses me. It boils down to, "People who hate kitchen sink settings should be all for kitchen sinks."

Could you clarify?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

No one is being 'bossed around' it's just that campaigns have premises and not every character concept is fit for every premise, nor are GM's obligated to run games, premises of which they do not like.