D&D 5E Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"

[Lyxen]

I find that without individual xp as an incentive some players tend to always have their characters - no matter what class or type the character may be - hang back and leave the risk-taking to others. And if nobody takes the risk the game/story stops in its tracks; somebody's gotta do it, and that somebody should be rewarded for it.

First, have you considered that it's a characteristic of your gaming group, having been trained in survival by the type of adventure that you run ? We never have that kind of problem at our tables (we have different ones, for sure, but not that one).

Second, again, rewards don't have to be in terms of XPs. It can be in renown, respect from NPCs, connections, or even monetary or magic for the risk taker, for example.

That said, if survival is the primary goal of the PCs at all times the presence/removal of xp shouldn't make any difference in how the party as a whole approach things. If when you removed xp you also removed lethality that'd be different, but the two are unrelated things.

That's a bit of the problem, if your world is so deadly that it prevents risk-taking, you have the real source of the difficulty, and dangling XP carrots does not look like a reasonable solution, better to stay at home than adventure in these cases...

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

In future campaigns I may propose to level up the hitpoints quickly to level 4 or 5, and let the other abilities trail by a bit. My main problem with level 1-2 is that the characters are so damn squishy. Put 5 kobolds on the map and have them all attack the same PC? Need a new PC.

But I like to get to know my character a bit more before making some decisions on its development. And levels 2-5 are very important levels in the development of the character.

 

[CleverNickName]

If you're going to get the reward anywa (xp, or levels) without any reference to the risk taken, there's no incentive at all to take risks.

That's a good point. It's definitely something a DM should consider before using milestone leveling.

 

[Lanefan]

First, have you considered that it's a characteristic of your gaming group, having been trained in survival by the type of adventure that you run ? We never have that kind of problem at our tables (we have different ones, for sure, but not that one).

Second, again, rewards don't have to be in terms of XPs. It can be in renown, respect from NPCs, connections, or even monetary or magic for the risk taker, for example.

In general xp are the reward that holds the most merit and can also be the most immediate. Renown etc. doesn't come till later, and carries with it the problem of the people giving the renown etc. weren't there to see what really happened and only have the survivors' story to go by.

And money/magic rarely works (unless, again, it comes much later with the same issues as noted above re renown) as treasure found in the field is always divided equally.

That's a bit of the problem, if your world is so deadly that it prevents risk-taking, you have the real source of the difficulty, and dangling XP carrots does not look like a reasonable solution, better to stay at home than adventure in these cases...

That's just it - it is better, and certainly safer, to stay at home than adventure...until your home gets overrun by whatever it is that the non-adventurers didn't deal with and you're scrambling for your life if you're still alive at all.

Adventuring is risky business. If it wasn't, there'd be no glory in it. It's also often very lucrative. If it wasn't, there'd be very little point to it other then the glory, and glory don't even buy me a cup of coffee.

 

[Lyxen]

In general xp are the reward that holds the most merit and can also be the most immediate. Renown etc. doesn't come till later, and carries with it the problem of the people giving the renown etc. weren't there to see what really happened and only have the survivors' story to go by.

First, in our groups, renown works because the characters themselves spread it between them and externally. Second, it has the huge advantage - at least for us - to be story-centric and not artificial.

And money/magic rarely works (unless, again, it comes much later with the same issues as noted above re renown) as treasure found in the field is always divided equally.

Equality has nothing to do with that, the DM decides what treasure is found. If the fighter was heroic, it can be a magic sword, and if the wizard was heroic, it could be a magic staff.

That's just it - it is better, and certainly safer, to stay at home than adventure...until your home gets overrun by whatever it is that the non-adventurers didn't deal with and you're scrambling for your life if you're still alive at all.

Are your adventurers all only adventuring because there is a threat ? Are they all such cowards that they need that kind of motivation to push them ? Note that it's not a criticism on the players, but once more we never have that kind of problem at our table where motivations are more varied and at least some (a lot, actually, it's a game of heroes after all) characters are actually courageous.

Adventuring is risky business. If it wasn't, there'd be no glory in it. It's also often very lucrative. If it wasn't, there'd be very little point to it other then the glory, and glory don't even buy me a cup of coffee.

Glory/reputation allows you to receive support and help in case of real trouble. In our Avernus campaign, it's arguably much harder to play a good character rather than an evil one, but whereas the evil ones get backstabbed by their contacts, at least the good ones have fewer contacts, but reliable and really supportive.

 

[Shardstone]

And my experience, after several extremely enjoyable campaigns including up to level 20 is that there is no problem for a DM to create interesting encounters at any level, because attack bonuses and scaling are not the most important things. So maybe the game is actually quite fine if not perfect, and it's just your reasoning that makes no sense and is flawed ?

It’s crazy you get away with telling people that they have no idea what they’re doing in such a consistent passive aggressive way. This persons suggestions did I’m no way deserve you telling them they don’t know what they’re doing.

 

[Shardstone]

No, levels 1-4 are not training wheels. They are where your backstory is written. It's where your characters develop into who they will become. And it is done with the party.

Rather than someone writing pages of backstory knowing nothing about the other characters, instead they develop back story together. To me, it's the funnest and most creative part of the campaign.

So training wheels

 

[Oofta]

In my experience XP was just paperwork, not a reward. The reward was the friends we made along the way. Well, and the monsters we killed so we could take their loot of course.

 

[Shardstone]

The first two levels take literally two days in-game, and maybe two sessions of real time, if going by the DMG recommendations.
I mean, if that's "finally, arduously," I can't imagine how to describe a real problem lol.

Some DMs in this thread talk about taking a year to get to 4. I don’t think this generalization is the gotcha you think it is.

 

[Shardstone]

In my experience XP was just paperwork, not a reward. The reward was the friends we made along the way. Well, and the monsters we killed so we could take their loot of course.

thats how you play the game. I like chilling with friend ps and getting in game rewards. Don’t demean what me and my table enjoy just because you have different tastes. Again I’m telling you to have some respect for other tables.