Joss Whedon Allegations: The Undoing of the "Buffy" Creator

[MGibster]

And also getting a tattoo, apparently. It reads like he felt entitled to an inappropriate amount of control over his actors and actresses.

From the article, it looks like there were some ongoing problems with Carpenter. She was having difficulties remembering her lines, she once got her hair cut shorter while an episode was still in production, and of course there's the tattoo. Not that this makes Whedon less of a jerk, but I do think he had some legitimate complaints about Carpenter.

 

[Janx]

It gets sticky when you try to define a person's ideals by their words and not their actions. I'm not a philosopher, but I feel that a person's opinions are defined by their actions. I don't think a person espouses an ideal just by talking about it.

It's easy for me to go around saying that "pineapple on pizza is bad." Lots of people will agree with me, applaud my efforts, voice their support for me in my crusade against pineapple. But it's gonna be really embarrassing for me when the pizzeria owner comes forward and tells everyone that I always order my pizza with pineapple, and have done it for years. And then all the pizza delivery drivers come forward and say "oh yeah, he orders pineapple all the time, it's kind of an open secret." And all those people who looked up to me as a champion of anti-pineapple ideals are going to (rightly) feel hurt, angry, and betrayed.

Tangent:
At that point, is it really everyone else's fault for putting me on an anti-pineapple pedestal, knowing full well that I am just a fallible human like any other? Or am I just a liar that got caught?

nope. You will be impaled on a pepperoni spear as an example to others

 

[Janx]

I've seen Bowie, Asimov and Eddings mentioned.

Is there a repository of People-Who-Turned-Out-To-Not-Be-Good somewhere? As somebody hadn't heard about Bradley (I knew!), clearly it's hard to keep up.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I find by the time I find out anything, I've already bought and supported that individual already...so what do you do?

If you find their actions problematic and those that supported them as problematic, you have already supported the problem and the actions.

On the otherhand, many of those we talk about are already dead. Who are you supporting then...the dead use no money that I know of. I suppose their heirs might...but how do we judge whether heirs are good or bad?

Instead of view ourselves as villains for supporting those who took actions we find unlikeable now, and thus we were those who supported those actions...perhaps it is better to see us as supporting the creations that they made that perhaps speak in a different manner or created situations differently than those who created them?

Look forward to making positive changes in the community in the future rather than condemning ourselves for the past.

I don’t think anyone thinks themselves a villain for unknowingly buying stuff made by an abuser.

But we cannot make positive change in the future without holding people accountable, and being honest about the past.

 

[Ryujin]

I've seen Bowie, Asimov and Eddings mentioned.

Is there a repository of People-Who-Turned-Out-To-Not-Be-Good somewhere? As somebody hadn't heard about Bradley (I knew!), clearly it's hard to keep up.

Sadly, it seems more efficient to look for a list of confirmed good people in media. The list would be much shorter.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You may have misunderstood my point (which may not have been communicated very well). You can say I'd totally buy the painting without caring that Hitler painted it.

Good for you.

EDIT: Then there are whole genres of music that would go along with Joss' treatment of women.

No, there aren’t. Artists, certainly. In every single genre. But no whole genres. Nor would your comment be relevant if there were.

No. I don’t.

This isn’t about actors keeping things quiet. They have stepped forward. You also can’t blame someone for trying to protect their career when they’re not in a position of power.

I said nothing about blaming such folks. Nor did I say anything about individual actors being morally required to speak up.

Buying products that put money in the hands of known abusers helped perpetuate the idea that it is often worth it to just stay quiet about the abuser, as long as they are good at making successful content.

It’s about acknowledging that Buffy et al, wasn’t just Whedon’s work. So we can enjoy it for everyone else’s benefit.

Great. And those people can’t make a living if you don’t buy a Buffy box set?

Unless co-wrote, a novel is predominantly created by the writer. The editor may assist and refine. But I trust you can see there is a whole order of magnitude between that and the legions involved in a TV show. Not to mention the fact that a lot of people would have no idea who or what a showrunner is. Everyone knows the name of the person who’s book they are reading.

Both require many people to create. The argument either stands or fails irrespective of the work being a novel or a show or movie.

 

[Dausuul]

I did not know about Eddings. Holy crap.

(For others not in the know: He and his wife were arrested and jailed for a year for child abuse. Not sexual abuse in this case; they literally locked the poor kid in a dog cage. This was before they published anything outside of academia.)

 

[Deset Gled]

I've seen Bowie, Asimov and Eddings mentioned.

Is there a new controversy about Bowie? He started talking out against his Thin White Duke persona decades ago.

 

[Janx]

Sadly, it seems more efficient to look for a list of confirmed good people in media. The list would be much shorter.

true, but I feel like I must treat people with some modicum of respect and assumption of innocence. Which also means that if I miss the news report where they killed folks, I'm clueless.

And just to comment on this fragment below, which I cannot get my cursor to go beneath... While I agree with the direction of the rest of the good doctor's post, this aspect has some weaksauce. Getting paid residuals for past work is part of Hollywood compensation package. For some, as they age out, it may be their only compensation. So I would not presume that people who worked 20 years ago on a show, don't need the money from you buying the boxed set NOW because they can still work. Maybe they can't.

Great. And those people can’t make a living if you don’t buy a Buffy box set?

 

[Janx]

Is there a new controversy about Bowie? He started talking out against his Thin White Duke persona decades ago.

I didn't know of anything until this thread and your post. On googling, I get the impression that of the 3 I mentioned he reformed early and earnestly.