D&D 5E Split the Assassin from the Rogue back into its own class

[Minigiant]

Those of you who prefer the Assassin to stay where it is, would you prefer if the Rogue went harder into thievery and trickery and have a Assassin be more deadliness.

Assassin be more about body agility and the Rogue about detailed hand eye coordination.

Sort of like the many discussions of the Dexterity split. The Assassin would be about Initiative, Light Armor AC, and evading a turn one opening fireball.

The Rogue would be about straight bonuses to skills and can focuses on dashing and disengaging.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I prefer the assassin to be a weak option. They can't really be axed because TRADITION, but they are not conducive to team play - I would rather players didn't choose it.

 

[Minigiant]

I prefer the assassin to be a weak option. They can't really be axed because TRADITION, but they are not conducive to team play - I would rather players didn't choose it.

Is the Assassin any more not conductive to team play than a Thief or a Scout.

Is the point of the "loner" archetype bringing and adapting their skills for teamplay. The thief brings their fast hands and learns to fight. The scout brings their sharp eyes and a bow. The Assassin brings their speed, knowledge of poisons and arteries, and wears light armors.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Is the Assassin any more not conductive to team play than a Thief or a Scout.

Yes. The scout observes, returns and guides the team. The assassin ditches the team, kills everything and disappears with the loot.

Although I prefer PC thieves who are swashbucklers, arcane tricksters and the like.

Is the point of the "loner" archetype bringing and adapting their skills for teamplay. The thief brings their fast hands and learns to fight. The scout brings their sharp eyes and a bow. The Assassin brings their speed, knowledge of poisons and arteries, and wears light armors.

The assassin's skills don't adapt to team play. And poison is useless, since everything is immune to it.

Pretty much every PC is a killer-for-hire, they don't need a class for it. And killers who kick down the front door make for much better gameplay.

 

[Minigiant]

Yes. The scout observes, returns and guides the team. The assassin ditches the team, kills everything and disappears with the loot.

Although I prefer PC thieves who are swashbucklers, arcane tricksters and the like.

The assassin can't kill anything that was a a challenge to the party. The same with the thief and scout.

That's why they joined the party.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The assassin can't kill anything that was a a challenge to the party. The same with the thief and scout.

That's why they joined the party.

Not my experience. They can kill stuff much more effectively without the party. That includes stuff that has a CR too high for the party as a whole.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Those of you who prefer the Assassin to stay where it is, would you prefer if the Rogue went harder into thievery and trickery and have a Assassin be more deadliness.

Not really, because then we need a new class for every skill-grouping and that lead to bloat, especially if certain skills (stealth) need to be repeated. I prefer one skill-focused class. (which is an argument for getting rid of rangers, I suppose, but I don't expect a ton of pushback there.)

Assassin be more about body agility and the Rogue about detailed hand eye coordination.

But both are mostly aboout stealth

Sort of like the many discussions of the Dexterity split. The Assassin would be about Initiative, Light Armor AC, and evading a turn one opening fireball.

The Rogue would be about straight bonuses to skills and can focuses on dashing and disengaging.

Then how does an assassin fight, in your estimation?

 

[Shadowedeyes]

I think it is difficult to come up with a separate class for Assassin that doesn't feel like it's mostly a riff off the rogue. So, while the assassin subclass could definitely use some tweaking, I'm not sure trying to make an entire class around the concept will work out well.

 

[Stormonu]

I think the assassin should stay as a rogue subclass, but it needs serious rework. It's abilities are just bad.

However, reading through this thread, I do think it could be done as a full-blown class on its own - but that would not be my preference. Could easily have three subclasses starting out - one leans into strength/thuggery, one leans into dex/stealth and a third incorporates magic into their bag of tricks (ala the 3E prestige class).

 

[Minigiant]

Not really, because then we need a new class for every skill-grouping and that lead to bloat, especially if certain skills (stealth) need to be repeated. I prefer one skill-focused class. (which is an argument for getting rid of rangers, I suppose, but I don't expect a ton of pushback there.)

But both are mostly aboout stealth

Then how does an assassin fight, in your estimation?

Like a fighter but with one big attack vs 2-8 small attacks.

High Fighter AC but low Rogue Health

Mid to high level you straight up get SOD attacks.