D&D 5E Split the Assassin from the Rogue back into its own class

[Gadget]

I agree that a fantasy assassin may be enough of an archetype and story to be its own class, but I also feel that a lot of the that class would overlap with the Rogue. The current implementation as a Rogue sub-class is lacking though. Like many other archetypes in 5e, and others have pointed out, it is possible to do a very credible assassin could be done in a variety of classes.

So, I guess my vote would go towards re-doing the current subclass to be more effective.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

assassins probably don't need to pick pockets,

Keys? Security pass?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

the Assassin as a concept should really probably be removed from the game entirely

It's fine for NPCs. "stop the assassin" "catch the assassin before they can escape". The original 1st edition AD&D Assassin was designed as an NPC class.

 

[Minigiant]

Which a rogue can do just fine.

Actually it can't. WOTC wrote the rogue in a way that it can't tank and trigger Sneak attack.

Oh, and since this is a 5e forum: you'd need to find a way to make poison useful if you want to build a class around it. For example, all undead are immune to poison, which significantly limits its utility.

Poisoner class creates and distills poison out of magic ingredients that deals acid, necrotic, or psychic damage

Easy peasy. C'mon. You think I didn't think of that, man?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

An Assassin's custom poison,

Worthless.

fake identities,

Anyone with disguise kit proficiency can do it.

and deadly dagger skills don't disappear because he has 3 friends nearby.

The disappear when the assassin doesn't get the drop on his mark because of his blundering friends.

Poisoner class creates and distills poison out of magic ingredients that deals acid, necrotic, or psychic damage

"The dragon is attacking us!"

"Just hang on whilst I brew the right sort of poison."

 

[jmartkdr2]

Actually it can't. WOTC wrote the rogue in a way that it can't tank and trigger Sneak attack.

Swashbuckler.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Swashbuckler.

Also Investigative and any rogue with the Grappler feat.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The original 1st edition AD&D was designed as an NPC class.

Really? It's right there in the PHB 1E, so that surprises me a bit. If it was in the back like the Bard that would make sense, but it isn't, it is right with Thief.

Anyway, I see a lot of people posting about the Sneaky Rogue, but there is a lot more to Rogues (and Assassins BTW) that sneaking.

I think you could make a full Assassin class, but you would have to expand on the different types of "killers-for-hire":

1. Infiltrator (classic sneak)
2. Imposter (disguised)
3. Sniper (ranged)
4. Thug/Killer (melee "in your face")
5. Poisoner (self-explanatory)

And there are probably others I am sure. But each of those could serve as a subclass for an Assassin class.

However, such a class would need features to distinguish it from other classes which can do the same thing, e.g. a Fighter with Archery Style and Sharpshooter could be a sniper, but would lack the burst damage of SA.

Which brings up another point, an Assassin would need some mechanic to support a burst damage/ instat-kill other than Sneak Attack, otherwise it conflicts with Rogue too much IMO.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Same tropes with the rogue and ranger.

Again the D&D classes can bring the solo skills to the

An Assassin's custom poison, fake identities, and deadly dagger skills don't disappear because he has 3 friends nearby.

Conservation of Ninjutsu does not need to be maintained.

Nah... the Rogue is just an umbrella term for a whole bunch of different concepts that are not mainly combat-related (like the Fighter subclasses are.) But I would suggest the difference between the other rogue subclasses and the Assassin is that while their schticks are solo-ish endeavors,they occur outside of combat-- which means it often won't take as long to do, and also other party members can go with the Rogue to help out. An Inquisitive detective can have the rest of the party come along as back-up without issue. The Thief can break into all the locked stuff while the rest of the group is searching other areas of the dungeon. But the Assassin's primary trope is killing people-- i.e. combat-- which means either the player goes off and gets into combat on their own as they try and take out marks (and making the rest of the table wait for the 1 to 5 rounds of solo combat the DM and Assassin player have to go through)... or the "assassin" is just one of an entire party of characters killing things as part of normal D&D game progression. So for my money that character is an "assassin" in name only.

And the Ranger does all of its stuff with the party as well, leading them or instructing them while out in the wilderness. Sure, they might go out to scout for a bit, but neither they nor the rogue usually want or try to get into fights while doing so. They see what's up and then quickly return back to the party, which means everyone gets back into the game quickly.

You're not wrong about the design of D&D conflicting with the concept of the assassin--and, in fact, with the rogue generally. Sneaky McSneakerson ranging ahead of the party is always a bit of a headache for the DM.

But the assassin archetype is popular enough that they almost have to support it somehow. So the solution was to create a subclass that could deliver a big blast of damage on the first round if they could arrange to strike with surprise, enough to have a noticeable impact but not enough to shut down a whole encounter. I think it's a reasonable way to handle it, even if this particular implementation suffers from a couple of issues.

True enough, which is why I voted for keeping it where it is. It probably should be removed as a class/subclass concept because to do the Assassin archetype correctly doesn't really fit the premise of the D&D party... but since they aren't going to do that... being a subclass of the rogue is fine to me. It's just that no one ever selects it because the class identity never feels right for the group D&D game.

It's fine for NPCs. "stop the assassin" "catch the assassin before they can escape". The original 1st edition AD&D Assassin was designed as an NPC class.

Oh yeah, absolutely... I was talking about the Assassin as a PC class/subclass.

 

[Minigiant]

Swashbuckler.

Swashbuckler has conditions to SA.
Assassin only "needs" advantage...sometimes.