D&D General The Art and the Artist: Discussing Problematic Issues in D&D

[Bedrockgames]

I don't agree with your premise that it's misleading at all. Anyone who's got even the most basic grasp of civil or criminal law understands that the word "harm" encompasses a great deal more things than physical injury.

Your inference that "this causes harm" indicates that this is "the most terrible thing on Earth" seems to me pure hyperbole, though I will credit that you are sincere. It prompts a strong gut reaction of incredulity in me.

That it is a legal term though is also part of the problem. I can say I am sincere and my issue with Harm as a term is it the way it gets used on places like Twitter and done of these discussion. It feels like a rhetorical bludgeon (because no one wants to be guilty if causing harm, but often if you dig deeper, there is more room for disagreement)

 

[Charlaquin]

but there ARE people that think games and stories MAKE people go out and stab other people...

There are vanishingly few gamers who think that. That’s a battle we’ve fought and pretty much won. Now, we’re confronting the fact that just because games don’t make people go out and stab other people, doesn’t mean they can’t still have a significant impact on the world.

 

[Malmuria]

This whole video is good, but I think relevant for what non-inclusive looks like in practice is the situation MC describes starting around 2:53


It's not really related to the OP, but at this point in the thread that's hardly my fault.

 

[Yora]

"Communities" is such a weird term to begin with.
There's a supposed "queer community", but I never received a membership card or got invited to any meetings. I don't engage in any communal activities with other queers to do queer stuff or further queer causes. Certainly there exist many clusters of queer people who engage in some course of internal discourse and actively reach out to the greater society as a whole in various ways. But that doesn't make them representatives or delegates of all queers.

 

[HammerMan]

Groups of people aren’t monolithic,

that is what I was trying (and failed and derailed for a moment) show. it's hard to make choices "for the greater good" when you don't have the information.

In my case I find I second guess myself more and more. "Is A more right or B?"

 

[HammerMan]

There are vanishingly few gamers who think that. That’s a battle we’ve fought and pretty much won. Now, we’re confronting the fact that just because games don’t make people go out and stab other people, doesn’t mean they can’t still have a significant impact on the world.

yes it is normally non gamers (mostly of the demagraphic that would not like the game anyway) that feel that way but every now and then you see the exception.

 

[Charlaquin]

what is a survey if not a collection of everyone you surveys antidotes?

A survey, at least one done with proper scientific rigor, control for things like representative sample populations, framing questions in ways that don’t bias the respondents towards a particular answer.

 

[Charlaquin]

"Communities" is such a weird term to begin with.
There's a supposed "queer community", but I never received a membership card or got invited to any meetings. I don't engage in any communal activities with other queers to do queer stuff or further queer causes. Certainly there exist many clusters of queer people who engage in some course of internal discourse and actively reach out to the greater society as a whole in various ways. But that doesn't make them representatives or delegates of all queers.

There are many communities of queer folk. I think when people say “the queer community,” what they’re usually meaning to refer to is queer culture.

 

[hawkeyefan]

That it is a legal term though is also part of the problem. I can say I am sincere and my issue with Harm as a term is it the way it gets used on places like Twitter and done of these discussion. It feels like a rhetorical bludgeon (because no one wants to be guilty if causing harm, but often if you dig deeper, there is more room for disagreement)

One could say the ongoing conversation about this topic has been harmed by the use of the word harm.

If one were to describe it that way, would you be confused?

 

[HammerMan]

A survey, at least one done with proper scientific rigor, control for things like representative sample populations, framing questions in ways that don’t bias the respondents towards a particular answer.

outside of the most rigor's academia such surveys are almost non existent. Saying that the only time any survey can be brought up that follows that pretty much dismisses almost every survey (from ones WoTC do to ones the Washington Post does) even people who are in the survey field know that level of rigor is the exception not the rule.

We (and I mean we as people not even just gamers or enworlders) use surveys that are biased all the time, ones with small samples and ones that don't account for all the variables. We then say "antidote isn't evidence" then neither is a large portion of surveys becuse more than not are NOT proper scientific rigor, control for things like representative sample populations, framing questions in ways that don’t bias the respondents towards a particular answer.

all we have is antidotes. We can compare them. I can tell you my experience and you can tell me yours. We can make an enworld poll that means nothing, or a survey monkey poll that is slightly better but still not really good.

Dismissing Antidote is dismissing the human experence that we have access to.

Now, if you have a peer reviewed with proper scientific rigor, control for things like representative sample populations, framing questions in ways that don’t bias the respondents towards a particular answer. survay on D&D... I would love you to share it. However I bet none of us do.