D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[HammerMan]

I never said D&D was perfect, some things are oversimplified. That's why we have DMs. On the other hand being able to long jump 60 feet without the aid of magic would be silly to me.

what makes magic a better explanation then "I trained real good and just can do it?" if the boots don't bother you why does having it from just training?

and opps I googled D&D jump and must have gotten high jump not long)

edit: and again 20ft is well below human current max of 30ft

 

[Minigiant]

For myself, I am in the mostly "mundane" camp for martials, because that is what distinguishes them from casters.

Now, as I've mentioned, I am fine with stretching the limits, but with your list it then becomes an issue of "by how much"? I think (or hope at least) for the sake of compromise, most "mundanies" like me would be happy with more, just not way more.

Increased movement? Double? Triple?
Super jumps? Same...
Physical immunities? The narrative creates a lot of this for myself, anyway. Grew up in the high mountains or arctic, so you have resistance and (maybe) at higher levels immunity to cold? Sounds okay to me. Have immunity to radiant damage? How??? Begins to sound like it is part of an origin story or it becomes too magical for my tastes...
Bypassing immunity or resistance? Though "incredible skill"? Resistance sure, but by the time you get into bypassing immunity it again might be too much...
Break anything? Really, anything? Probably not. Toppling a pillar to bring down a roof? Sure. Snapping a magical sword with your bare hands, nope.
Mult-part reactions? No clue, do you have an example???

How much depends on how far the magic they deal with go

Quite frankly even with the reduced spell slots casters can heavily break reality very often. So it becomes an arms race or grindrace to mitigate it. Especially when you get to the point where enemies are full of supernatural powers or casters themselves.

 

[Scribe]

The issue is out of combat exploration and social stuff. Is it really too much to let them have a few nonmagical tricks here?

Exploration Training -> We have that today, its Boy Scouts and Army Training.
Social -> Why do we even need tricks? Pass your Intimidation/Charm/Social Charisma check or fail.

 

[Oofta]

Can Jackie Chan or John McCain fight a Dragon? Or a T-Rex?

Jackie Chan would just somehow grab a ladder and knock the dragon out of the sky while simultaneously entrapping it. If John McCain can have a 5 minute long fist fight on a passenger jet while it's taking off he can do anything.

 

[DND_Reborn]

we could build a (insect sword sage warblade warlord or whatever) class from level 1 and put it next to fighter... make it more then fighter and no one can complain that it is better...so are all the casters.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. First, if it was more people would complain. In gaining magic, you have to lose something. Casters do it by lack of armor, hit points, and being screwed when their magic runs out.

Casters are only so good at present because of the design of 5E. Get rid of some spells, reduce access to others, reduce number of spells per rest, etc. and suddenly "magic" isn't a solution to everything all the time.

People have been asking for a true arcane-gish for a while now, and nothing has come from it because you can't have a class as good at fighting as fighter but as good as spells as a caster.

That's my take on it, anyway.

 

[Mort]

Exploration Training -> We have that today, its Boy Scouts and Army Training.
Social -> Why do we even need tricks? Pass your Intimidation/Charm/Social Charisma check or fail.

Because any class can do that and the rogue can already do them MUCH better.

Why not give the fighter a few options other than multiclassing. Such as again - more uses for superiority dice etc.

 

[Oofta]

and there it is... not that it hurts the game not that it matters at all. if you do it with magic it is fine, but if you do it with "special fighter abilities" it is wrong... even if it is "legendary or epic fighter ablilty" but a magic item no big deal...

It has nothing to do with game balance. Not sure why that's at all unclear.

 

[Scribe]

Because any class can do that and the rogue can already do them MUCH better.

Why not give the fighter a few options other than multiclassing. Such as again - more uses for superiority dice etc.

Because why?

Rogues (and Bards as the Jack of All Trades) are skill monkeys. Thats part of what they are.

Why should the fighter have anything special in these areas? It doesnt speak to Fighter identity or core concept in any way at all.

 

[HammerMan]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that. First, if it was more people would complain. In gaining magic, you have to lose something. Casters do it by lack of armor, hit points, and being screwed when their magic runs out.

what? clerics get plate, bladesingers get martial weapons...
heck I would be fine dropping it to a D8 HHD class instead of d10

People have been asking for a true arcane-gish for a while now, and nothing has come from it because you can't have a class as good at fighting as fighter but as good as spells as a caster.

if it was a balance issue the paliden is a weird class and so is the cleric... and druid

 

[HammerMan]

It has nothing to do with game balance. Not sure why that's at all unclear.

because if it is balanced, and can work with one explanation I don't understand why a different explanation hurts?