D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Mort]

Because magic let's you do things that are impossible without it (or technology i suppose). That doesn’t seem hard to understand, but it does seem hard to accept for some.

"Impossible" is a really odd word when we are discussing fantastical settings and worlds that are magic themselves. The background itself is magical.

 

[TwoSix]

LOL good one!

Oh, wait, were you being serious???

Of course. Preternatural awareness and insight that's almost like precognition is a trope I've seen multiple times for high-level warriors.

 

[Mort]

Have a look at the Level Up fighter. A much more interesting iteration of the class, imo.

Sure, I even have the books! And plan to take a deep dive asap.

But we're discussing "core" 5e.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Of course. Preternatural awareness and insight that's almost like precognition is a trope I've seen multiple times for high-level warriors.

Okay... but to the degree that spell allows? I mean it is 8 HOURS, advantage on attacks and saves, as well as disadvantage on people attacking you. That goes well beyond anything I've seen, especially for the trope.

Now, a limited version, certainly, but not to the power of the spell. It might be something you want, but that would be so out of bounds for me I wouldn't even entertain it!

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Is the problem still that the old fashioned fighter can't keep up? (Don't bring a sword to a gunfight is sad if you love swords and the only game around turns into a gun fight).

Look, its clear from this thread some people want their fighter to be a chump. They are fine with mediocrity and sidekick status. They shouldnt get to hamper the design of a mythic martial designed to be on par with casters because the class wouldnt be for them!

 

[Mannahnin]

The argument hear is going to be that someone has a character conception of "hardened veteran who doesn't scare" (and someone else will have "hardened heart who doesn't succumb to succubi" and someone else will have "been scammed a lot and doesn't fall for phishing anymore" and...).

So how does it work if everyone has one "story based immunity to a specific type of non-magical influence".

Or will everyone who says that's playing their character momentarily and usurping control still say that?

I suggested up-thread that if it's a prior-established character trait, the DM can grant the character Advantage on their save against such a behavior-influencing effect which conflicts with the character's nature.

 

[Maxperson]

From the basic rules:

Long Jump. When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump.​

​

On the other hand

High Jump. When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier (minimum of 0 feet) if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump.​

​

I never said D&D was perfect, some things are oversimplified. That's why we have DMs. On the other hand being able to long jump 60 feet without the aid of magic would be silly to me.

Those are the 5e rules. How the heck do you get to 60 feet without a very, VERY, VERY generous DM with the athletics check to go farther?

 

[Willie the Duck]

Of course. Preternatural awareness and insight that's almost like precognition is a trope I've seen multiple times for high-level warriors.

If we're talking about re-skinning, it doesn't even have to be that. 'Can’t have the game-defined state of surprised effect them, advantage on most rolls, and others have disadvantage on attack rolls against them' could just as easily fall under the new high-level fighter power 'Just that Awesome' and be done with it, no need to even reference precognition.

 

[Mannahnin]

Personal preference. Thats it, thats all.

I want my Fighter to be just a real dude, strapping on his armour and picking up his sword (both magical) and standing in there killing the demon, just like 'we' could do, if given the gear.

Not sure if that makes sense. It offers a different path of immersion.

I enjoy that sort of game too, but I'm more inclined to play old school D&D or another system for that. In pre-3E editions, mages got awesome spells, but had sufficient limitations on them that fighters were also still very good.

WotC-era D&D is up-powered, more mythic and heroic. For my money, the fighters should be as larger than life and epic as the mages in 5E.

Those are the 5e rules. How the heck do you get to 60 feet without a very, VERY, VERY generous DM with the athletics check to go farther?

He's arguing against an hypothetical idea posited earlier in the thread.

 

[Mort]

Those are the 5e rules. How the heck do you get to 60 feet without a very, VERY, VERY generous DM with the athletics check to go farther?

I think this was in response to someone saying you could triple the long jump distances for fighters and no one would notice