D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Maxperson]

I didn't say magic items was involved in the math.

I said fighters has to deal with

1. flyers

A bow works fine.

1. Invisible

They might have disadvantage, but perception goes a long way to finding where they are.

1. teleporters

Either they are still in range after they teleport and can be shot, or they are too far away to matter.

1. shooters

Shoot back.

1. casters

Shoot back or just cut them down. Perhaps take Mage Slayer since they are fighters and have a lot of ASIs to turn into feats.

which require specific types of magic items to deal with.

No. It doesn't require a single one. The items would be useful, but not one is required.

Magic must defeat magic. Don't like it, stop using magic monsters.

Or buy a bow.

 

[FrogReaver]

A bow works fine.

They might have disadvantage, but perception goes a long way to finding where they are.

Either they are still in range after they teleport and can be shot, or they are too far away to matter.

Shoot back.

Shoot back or just cut them down. Perhaps take Mage Slayer since they are fighters and have a lot of ASIs to turn into feats.

No. It doesn't require a single one. The items would be useful, but not one is required.

Or buy a bow.

IMO, saying a fighter must use a bow (and be good with it) isn't a particularly strong point for team fighter.

 

[FrogReaver]

At what level does the fighter fall noticably behind the wizard in 5e?

IMO 11+. (Can be earlier if limited encounters per day).

By level 13 a Wizard can kill most anything that can fit in a Forcecage by himself. (Sickening Radiance + Force Cage).

 

[Maxperson]

IMO, saying a fighter must use a bow (and be good with it) isn't a particularly strong point for team fighter.

I'm okay with them getting new things. They just don't require(need) magic items.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm okay with them getting new things. They just don't require(need) magic items.

I think a good case can be made that a low dex / high str fighter does.

 

[Maxperson]

I think a good case can be made that a low dex / high str fighter does.

Even then I don't think so. The game is designed so that PCs have strengths and weaknesses. It's okay to have a weakness, and this situation isn't nearly as dire as @Minigiant is painting it. That's why having a party that can cover each others weaknesses is important. They designed this game with teamwork in mind.

 

[FrogReaver]

Even then I don't think so. The game is designed so that PCs have strengths and weaknesses. It's okay to have a weakness, and this situation isn't nearly as dire as @Minigiant is painting it. That's why having a party that can cover each others weaknesses is important. They designed this game with teamwork in mind.

Str based fighters weakness is - everything in the game that the DM doesn't sit directly in front of him and leave sitting there?

 

[Minigiant]

A bow works fine.

They might have disadvantage, but perception goes a long way to finding where they are.

Either they are still in range after they teleport and can be shot, or they are too far away to matter.

Shoot back.

Shoot back or just cut them down. Perhaps take Mage Slayer since they are fighters and have a lot of ASIs to turn into feats.

No. It doesn't require a single one. The items would be useful, but not one is required.

Or buy a bow.

you need more than a bow.

You need the DM to play dumb or a curated environment.

 

[Maxperson]

Str based fighters weakness is - everything in the game that the DM doesn't sit directly in front of him and leave sitting there?

No. Not everything fights in the white room Minigiant has painted for the Horned Devil. In fact, very little actually does. Most of the time with some effort the strength based fighter will be able to contribute.

 

[Maxperson]

you need more than a bow.

You need the DM to play dumb or a curated environment.

So now a creature being in range of a bow is the DM playing dumb?