D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Eubani]

It's not supposed to be a one on one fight, though. The scenario was a fighter who couldn't do anything without magic items to a flying horned devil, while everyone else could. It's actually the opposite.

It's not once. You are readying an attack action, so you get all 3 attacks.

Either way, it doesn't change that the fighter will do better than the casters.

Sage Advice clarified that Readied action only provides 1 attack.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I said fighters has to deal with

1. flyers
2. Invisible
3. teleporters
4. shooters
5. casters

which require specific types of magic items to deal with. Magic must defeat magic. Don't like it, stop using magic monsters.

So, fighters have to deal with this... so does every other class. Some a better able to handle certain challenges better than others.

Basically it sounds like you're saying if fighters must be mundane, so should every threat they might face because otherwise how can they possibly handle them without resorting to magic items?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Also, in writing this, I think I've just convinced myself to play 1e again.

That is usually the best solution for any problem a person has with 5E.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Sage Advice clarified that Readied action only provides 1 attack.

Ugh! Don't get them going--you will never convince them that what they are doing is fine, but not the way it was meant to be done. And they will just throw the same argument your way over and over. It isn't worth your time.

 

[Minigiant]

So, fighters have to deal with this... so does every other class. Some a better able to handle certain challenges better than others.

Basically it sounds like you're saying if fighters must be mundane, so should every threat they might face because otherwise how can they possibly handle them without resorting to magic items?

What I am saying is that if people want mundane fighters and supernatural monsters, they either have to hand out very rare items like candy or base the game around casters buffing fighters as the best strategy.

None of this "I the DM don't have to give you winged shoes, bat cape, magic carpet or +3 bow".

 

[EzekielRaiden]

So, fighters have to deal with this... so does every other class. Some a better able to handle certain challenges better than others.

Basically it sounds like you're saying if fighters must be mundane, so should every threat they might face because otherwise how can they possibly handle them without resorting to magic items?

I mean, realistically, yes?

When there are threats designed to be impossible to defeat without magic, but literally nothing (to the best of my knowledge!) designed such that it cannot, even in principle, be defeated with magic...yeah, that would seem to be a pretty clear demonstration of inequality.

There are no threats that a clever player cannot defeat with the aid of magic. There are threats that even a clever player cannot defeat without magic.

 

[Lyxen]

Sage Advice clarified that Readied action only provides 1 attack.

It did not need clarification, extra attack is clearly written to work only on your turn. Three simple words and at the end of a sentence, but the power is described in only one sentence any way.

 

[Lyxen]

When there are threats designed to be impossible to defeat without magic, but literally nothing (to the best of my knowledge!) designed such that it cannot, even in principle, be defeated with magic...yeah, that would seem to be a pretty clear demonstration of inequality.

There are no threats that a clever player cannot defeat with the aid of magic. There are threats that even a clever player cannot defeat without magic.

First, I don't agree, I have designed and will continue to design monsters that cannot be defeated by magic alone, including monsters that grow more powerful when confronted by magic (this is a common trope of the genre, and I have no problems using that and, before you say it, it's not casters unfriendly, it's "stupid caster" unfriendly since casters can still use magic to support their party and their martials).

Second, nothing prevents martials from wielding magic, through weapons, armors or various items.

 

[RainOnTheSun]

I dont really think Doctor Strange needs to exist until very late levels, and I 100% believe Magic Items need to be assumed at such a point, AND I believe Fighters need to be better delivery systems for those items, than non-mundane Classes.

This! This is how I would square the circle, if I were a game designer. Which I am not, and for good reason, but - okay, this is assuming an "ideal" fighter, who contributes as well as anyone else at "hit it until it dies" but still needs help in the other pillars and general versatility. I'd give them access to clearly supernatural abilities, but I'd make them need magic items to use them.

A high-level fighter with a Flame Tongue can melt a glacier.

A high-level fighter with a Frost Brand can make a volcano dormant.

A high-level fighter with Boots of Striding and Springing can kill three men without seeming to get up from his chair.

Nobody else can do this, for the same reason that nobody else can create a Forcecage by snorting powdered diamond. They don't know how to, and the techniques are too complicated and grueling to just walk a novice through.

Does this make the fighter, himself, magical? Not any more than a fighter pilot or a concert pianist. The potential is in the item. 99.9% of the population doesn't know how to bring it out.

Does this make the fighter more reliant on gear than other classes? Yes. But if your fighter uses anything but their bare hands and feet, you are already accepting this. I'd even argue that this is baked into the fighter class: their biggest defining feature is the ability to use every weapon and every piece of armor. By their core design, more than any other class, the fighter is a tool user. And the better the tool, the better the fighter should be at using it.

Ideally, this wouldn't increase the fighter's direct in-combat ability by much, if at all. Like a wizard with expensive spell components, not having the fancy stuff doesn't significantly handicap them, it just takes a few of their options away.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Well, make those magic items guaranteed, like was suggested above.

Also, I think its pretty clear that in combat, an appropriately leveled fighter can fight that devil, without any additional supernatural abilities.

I thought there was a party behind the fighter? So while the fighter gets 4-5 magical items to measure up with the wizard, the wizard gets 4-5 magical items (or just crafts them himself) to outclass the fighter again.