D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Mort]

The issue is Batman hangs out with the JLA because he has plot armor. Specifically, he either has played 4D chess with everyone (ally and enemy), has the proper gadget, or both. Batman doesn't fight Superman like he's punching the Joker, he used kryptonite and anti-Superman armor, plus his array of vehicles, supercomputers, and weapons.

Batman isn't a fighter or a rogue, he's a high-level artificer. Or at best he's enough fiat to get whatever magical item he needs from the DM. Either way, he's not going to survive going toe to toe with anyone but other street-level heroes and villains. It's why in the classic game of "who would win" Batman always has to be qualified with how much knowledge and prep time he has.

That's not too say Batman doesn't contribute to the JLA, he's the world's greatest detective (when the plot allows it) with the world's greatest superpower (money). He can fight like a peek human, and has mastered several social skills. But outside of Gotham, he's sorely outclassed without his "magic" items and plot coupons.

Batman isn't all that hard to model, all you need is a DM willing to provide you with the ultimate backstory and magic item:

Backstory:

You are ludicrously wealthy to the point gold has little meaning. You can procure ANY item (magical or otherwise) as needed. Size is no object, you need a castle and plot of land? You get a castle and plot of land. Artifacts MAY take a bit longer, but you can procure them with time(or just use your utility belt, below).

You can also use your wealth for any other purpose required, such as (but not limited to) acquiring information as needed.

Magic Item:
Utility belt: Produce ANY magic item as a bonus action. All requirements to use the item are waived as to you.

I'm being a bit tongue in cheek - but not much!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Magic Item:
Utility belt: Produce ANY magic item as a bonus action. All requirements to use the item are waived as to you.

Oh, I always loved the Girdle of Many Pouches in AD&D! It was one of my favourite items back then--so incredibly useful!!!

 

[Mort]

Oh, I always loved the Girdle of Many Pouches in AD&D! It was one of my favourite items back then--so incredibly useful!!!

If you use D&D Beyond, you can find it on there for 5e (as a homebrewed item, but still).

 

[DND_Reborn]

If you use D&D Beyond, you can find it on there for 5e (as a homebrewed item, but still).

Found it. Yeah still awesome item...

 

[Minigiant]

I like how 4E conceptualized it, and I retain some of the same general framework in 5E. Fighters eventually turn into/turn out to be demigods or something similar, if they make it up to epic levels. And there's a continuum of power where they get closer to that as the level up.

This is where Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies from 4e could return to the game in some different form more suitable for 5e.

A version of Paragon Path/Epic Destiny that you can take starting at level 11 would allow tables that want more superheroics in high level characters to have it, while those who don't like it could ignore it.

I meant having Hercules Supernatural Strength or Achilles Invulnerable Skin or Blade's Quick Reflexes at level 1 instead of a fighting style and Second wind.

 

[Willie the Duck]

This crosses my taste/preference line. I am also curious about where/why this obsession with Jump distances, in particular, comes from for the (for lack of a better term and not dissing individual preferences in any way) "superheroic Fighter" crowd. Why is the idea they can jump huge/supernatural distances or heights such a draw/big deal?

I think the dominant one being that it is something that is a clearly mundane activity, just taken to a ridiculous extreme. So even if you don't want your fighter doing a Heracles and wrestling Death for the soul of Alcestis, you can still have your fighter jump preternaturally far and it still feel mundane even if it is completely implausible.
That, plus it is something that an action movie star would be able to do. Somewhere between Thor and a historical medieval warrior is John McClain.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I think the dominant one being that it is something that is a clearly mundane activity, just taken to a ridiculous extreme. So even if you don't want your fighter doing a Heracles and wrestling Death for the soul of Alcestis, you can still have your fighter jump preternaturally far and it still feel mundane even if it is completely implausible.
That, plus it is something that an action movie star would be able to do. Somewhere between Thor and a historical medieval warrior is John McClain.

which john McClain as ti is crazier in the latter movies.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I meant having Hercules Supernatural Strength or Achilles Invulnerable Skin or Blade's Quick Reflexes at level 1 instead of a fighting style and Second wind.

Wow! Really?

Umm... no, no thank you. That is so against D&D from the beginning IME and IMO that I can't even say any more about it.

 

[HammerMan]

Does that make you a "new guard" player who grew up on Avengers and want to be able to kick a god in the nuts???

This isn't about just keeping fighters down, it is about balance and allowing PCs to shine in their role. 5E's biggest issue is they just designed it so everyone can fill every role, which means you might has well just have one class and thousands of subclasses for each viable option people can think up...

yeah I don't know if that new/old divide tracks, me and becky were reading the 2e PHB in early to mid 90's and we are on team give fighter cool things...

 

[DND_Reborn]

yeah I don't know if that new/old divide tracks, me and becky were reading the 2e PHB in early to mid 90's and we are on team give fighter cool things...

Don't ask me, they started it and got red tagged by the mods for it.