D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Lyxen]

Stuff like this belongs in the Players Handbook, not the DMs Guide.

No, they don't. First, it's an OPTIONAL rule, as written, and customisation belongs in the DMG by your own admission below, moreover, this concerns NPCs and Monsters. What business is this of the players ?

Also, social reactions, stealth rules, athletics rules, and so on, needs to be in the Players Handbook.

No, again, they don't. Sorry, but the standard loop has just the players describing their actions. What business is it of them how the DM manages the world and the NPCs ?

Everything one needs to run a game belongs in the Players Handbook.

Seeing that the DM runs the game, this is absolute, total nonsense.

Everything in DMs Guide is more about modifying the game.

That is your own opinion, and it has zero value for me.

 

[Yaarel]

@Lyxen

I see morale as a normal part of D&D since 1e.

Players need to understand how the game works, and what their class features (including skills like Persuasion, Intimidation, Stealth, Athletics, etcetera) do.

It belongs in the Players Handbook.

 

[DND_Reborn]

interesting... I didn;t do any numbers I just went by gut instinct but the cleric and warlock can get around damage resist and immunity and the fighter rogue can't (taking the biggest boost they have the higher damage out) and the cleric can heal so i figure even if both groups loose the warlock/cleric party should hold there own longer...

edit: I just went to look and CR 15 is ALL over the place... mummy lord would most likly loose to both the spellcasting vampire or one of the dragons stands a good chance against either and the death tyrant laughs at both in eye rays...

Well, a ton depends on the creature you choose of course. Any land-bound creature would have problems with a Warlock with fly and 600-ft range pew pews...

But I think only someone is a HUGE state of denial would argue for the fighter/rogue combo over the warlock/cleric in most encounters, somewhat depending on the scenario.

Still, that is why D&D has magic items. I really don't see why people seem to be so averse to the idea by tier 3 and 4 especially.

 

[Lyxen]

@Lyxen
I see morale as a normal part of D&D since 1e.

That I can agree with, and it's certainly something that I always take into account as a DM, but since it's as a DM, it indeed belongs to the DMG.

That being said, I usually run it very much using roleplaying criterions putting myself in a NPC/Monster shoes and seeing things through its angle rather than relying on rules, but when I'm uncertain, a d20 is always useful.

 

[HammerMan]

try this thought experiment. come up with a concept, a weapon and a name... but don't do race/class. Make it aa awesome combaat monkey in one way or another in concept weapon and name

take the default array, make it a 9th level fighter.
take that 9th level fighter and change just the class to bard (sword or valor) choose the least helpful feat to remove (not the most useful) then pick spells you can flavor as cool combat things.
take that 9th level bard and switch just the class to a martial weapon/heavy armor cleric... do the same with spells picking cool combat things...

now imagine bringing all 3 to an adventure with a 9th level rogue (arcane trickster) a 9th level wizard (bladesinger) and a 9th level warlock (infernal) of your 3 versions of the same concept... what one brings more to the table?

I want to try my own game

LUcian the human warrior
16, 15, 14, 13, 11, and 9.
fighter: (samurai)
18 str 12 dex 16 con 9 int 13 wis 14 cha
Save +8 str +7 Con +5 Wis
Feat:lucky FS: defensive
AC 21 (plate&shield) HP 85 Attack: +8/+8 1d8+4
action surge 1/sr second wind 1/sr indomitable 1/day Fighting Spirit 3/day

Bard:
16 str 11 dex 15 con 9 int 13 wis 16 cha
Saves +4 dex +7cha
Feat:lucky
AC 20 (plate&shield) HP 50 Attack: +8/+8 1d8+4
song of rest d8, spells (12) 4/3/3/1, 3 cantrips, 3d8 inspiration/sr, counter charm, expertise in 2 skills half prof to all others (and initiative)

Cleric:
16 str 11 dex 15 con 9 int 15 wis 14 cha
Saves +4 dex +7cha
Feat:lucky
AC 20 (plate&shield) HP 50 Attack: +8 1d8+4+1d8
channel divinity turn/destory undead, spells (12) 4/3/3/1, 4 cantrips


so the fighter has +1 AC and slightly HP, but the 11 spells can be used to do alot including heal so...

 

[HammerMan]

Still, that is why D&D has magic items. I really don't see why people seem to be so averse to the idea by tier 3 and 4 especially.

I'm not adverse to useing them. I am adverse to cherry picking the best for one character and none/worst for another. if you add magic items just remember it is a rising tide that raises all shipps

 

[Minigiant]

I don't mind the idea. I think it's easier to do that sort of thing with level-up abilities, paragon or epic powers for higher level heroes. One can certainly start a campaign above first level. But I don't oppose the idea of coming up with a whole 1-20 superhuman class.

I've always been of the opinion that you pull Hercules and Blade from fighter and make a new class.

I call it the Paragon class.

At level 1, you chose a superpower

• Super Strength
• Super Speed
• Invulnerable Skin
• Sensitive Senses

At level 3, you choose the source of your power.

• You are a demigod child of a god
• You are a descendant of a dragon
• You are a dhampir or were not fully turned by a vampire
• You drank a special strengthening magic potion and survived the near lethal side effects.
• You were hit with magic rays

The Paragon would give you more ASI than a fighter but they would be fixed to your superpower. You go from level 1 Young Hercules at 18 Str to level 10 Young Adult Hercules at 24 Str to Level 20 Adult Hercules as 30 Str. And as a demigod you don't age, regenerate, and can revive for free.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I'm not adverse to useing them. I am adverse to cherry picking the best for one character and none/worst for another. if you add magic items just remember it is a rising tide that raises all shipps

Sure, but magic items benefit/ impact martials more than casters. Casters already are/have magic, martials don't (mostly...).

 

[DND_Reborn]

I've always been of the opinion that you pull Hercules and Blade from fighter and make a new class.

I call it the Paragon class.

At level 1, you chose a superpower

• Super Strength
• Super Speed
• Invulnerable Skin
• Sensitive Senses

At level 3, you choose the source of your power.

• You are a demigod child of a god
• You are a descendant of a dragon
• You are a dhampir or were not fully turned by a vampire
• You drank a special strengthening magic potion and survived the near lethal side effects.
• You were hit with magic rays

The Paragon would give you more ASI than a fighter but they would be fixed to your superpower. You go from level 1 Young Hercules at 18 Str to level 10 Young Adult Hercules at 24 Str to Level 20 Adult Hercules as 30 Str. And as a demigod you don't age, regenerate, and can revive for free.

LOL why bother?

Just make those thing Invocations and go with Warlock, choosing your patron/source. Nix/nerf the spellcasting for other abilities/invocations.

 

[HammerMan]

Sure, but magic items benefit/ impact martials more than casters. Casters already are/have magic, martials don't (mostly...).

except that I always see people want to compare +3 weapon +3 armor ring of prot and 2-3 misc items to a wizard with a scroll or two or maybe a potion.

add wands staffs and armor enhancers... basicly if you are making the fighter hit harder make the wizard hit harder.vif you make the fighter harder to hit make the wizard harder to hit.

items are a variable (one the player has little to no control of) so I can't count on finding the belt of storm giant str for every fighter...but I also can't count on getting a staff of fire for my mages. we take the items out to remove variables.