D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Minigiant]

This I completely agree with, especially about superheroes.

The "it has a sword/axe/hammer so it's a fighter" and "it punches and/or kicks so it's a monk" ideas need to die in a fire.

A big fire.

If it isn't a warrior strictly devoting 75% or more of its train to the pure pursuit of martial combat with the use of weapons and armor, it isn't a fighter.

Super héroes and Mythic heroes tend to powers that allow them to ignore aspects of weapons and armor combat and shift them out of the fighter class. A few of them have powers that allow them to focus on martial combat arts even more like Captain America and Black Panther.

DC cartoons tend to display this very well where martial artists there beat up the super powered because the Superpowered often don't know how to fight.

 

[Mordhau]

A 20th level Wizard is Doctor Strange right?

So at least Thor.

I don't get why we would want it otherwise. I don't particularly want to play a Thor level fighter, but if the game continues to the point that one of the PCs is Doctor Strange, than my Fighter should be Thor level.

Or we just stop the game earlier.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The "it has a sword/axe/hammer so it's a fighter" and "it punches and/or kicks so it's a monk" ideas need to die in a fire.

A big fire.

Well, I would put that fire out LOL but as to the rest...

Super héroes and Mythic heroes tend to powers that allow them to ignore aspects of weapons and armor combat and shift them out of the fighter class. A few of them have powers that allow them to focus on martial combat arts even more like Captain America and Black Panther.

Sure, they use their superpowers instead of fighting. Unfortunately, in most the stuff I know (admittedly very limited!) those powers are basically "magical" if not outright magic.

DC cartoons tend to display this very well where martial artists there beat up the super powered because the Superpowered often don't know how to fight.

Again, I'll take your word on that.

 

[J.Quondam]

How would you throw a dragon a mile or destroy a castle in seconds as a 9th level wizard?

It's possible, but requires a dip into Sorc to get Hyperbole metamagic.

 

[OB1]

Rogue is Black Widow.
Ranger is Hawkeye.
The Trickery Domain Cleric is, literally, Loki's powers...direct rip off. Plus ability to wear armor? Adequate ability to use weapons/hand-to-hand?
The 20th level Cleric is Loki.

The rest seem pretty spot on.

Ha! I always saw Loki as an Arcane Trickster Rogue, but I like Trickery Domain Cleric better.

Revised based on this and other comments.

20th Level Fighter - Cap
20th Level Barbarian - Hulk
20th Level Artificer - Iron Man
20th Level Paladin - Thor
20th Level Monk - Black Panther (Spidey isn't quite level 20 yet, punched above his level in Infinity War due to magic items from a generous DM)
20th Level Rogue - Black Widow
20th Level Sorcerer - Scarlet Witch (internal power unlocked by Infinity Stone)
20th Level Wizard - Dr Strange
20th Level Warlock - Captain Marvel (power granted by Infinity Stone)
20th Level Bard - Star Lord
20th Level Ranger - Hawkeye
20th Level Cleric (Trickery) - Loki

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Cap and Black Panther are literally national-level heroes. They're good examples of what a low-mid Tier 3 fighter should be, allowing for some suitable magic items.

20th-level fighters should be matching 20th level wizards, clerics etc in capability in the probably-less-than-5-encounter adventuring day. That power level is around that of the hulk.
This isn't the same as saying all 20th-level fighters should be able to deadlift a battleship, but in terms of "what are they capable of achieving" I would rate a level 20 full-caster with items at around the same capability as the Hulk, therefore that is where the other classes, including fighter should be as well.

Although . . . picking up one giant and hitting another giant with them, or swatting mooks with a tree you just wrenched out of the ground does sound a lot more fun than doing the equivalent amount of damage by making the same rolls you've been doing since 1st level.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

20th-level fighters should be matching 20th level wizards, clerics etc in capability in the probably-less-than-5-encounter adventuring day. That power level is around that of the hulk.
This isn't the same as saying all 20th-level fighters should be able to deadlift a battleship, but in terms of "what are they capable of achieving" I would rate a level 20 full-caster with items at around the same capability as the Hulk, therefore that is where the other classes, including fighter should be as well.

This is just confused. Hulk has the capability to deadlift a battleship, and is basically immune to all damage lesser than a cruise missile, so if you want a character with the same capability than Hulk, then they should be able to do something similar, or they in fact do not have the same capability than Hulk!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Cap and Black Panther are literally national-level heroes.

They might have started that way, but I doubt they would still be that level at the end.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

This is just confused. Hulk has the capability to deadlift a battleship, and is basically immune to all damage lesser than a cruise missile, so if you want a character with the same capability than Hulk, then they should be able to do something similar, or they in fact do not have the same capability than Hulk!

20th-level fighters should be matching 20th level wizards, clerics etc in capability in the probably-less-than-5-encounter adventuring day. That power level is around that of the hulk.
This isn't the same as saying all 20th-level fighters should be able to deadlift a battleship, but in terms of "what are they capable of achieving" I would rate a level 20 full-caster with items at around the same capability as the Hulk, therefore that is where the other classes, including fighter should be as well.

Bolded to aid understanding.
At level 20 most characters are able to tank multiple fireballs cruise missiles. In a general adventuring day, dealing with the sorts of situations that adventurers meet, I think that a party with the Hulk in it would be about as successful as a party with a level 20 wizard in it. That is the same level of capability, even though the two groups would find different things challenging. Having the same general level of capability does not mean "does the same things".

 

[S'mon]

Having seen Tony Stark in his Hulkbuster Iron Man Suit beat up Hulk, and seen Thor beat up Hulk until tasered by Valkyrie, and seen Hulk do no better against Thanos than Cap did later, I never thought of MCU Hulk as some ultimate measure of potency. Maybe he was in his own film; I never watched that.
MCU hero power levels vary pretty widely from film to film, and their feats follow rule of cool, not even normal cinematic physics. They tend to be the big cheese in their own film but are often downgraded as part of a team.