D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Gammadoodler]

But how does a 9th level wizard cast meteor swarm?

Ahh..had to go up several posts to read the original snark. And...fair question

 

[Oofta]

The only true TPK I've ever had came from just this: the party's tank got Dominated and the rest of the party just couldn't handle him while still keeping the BBEG occupied. Then, once the tank was the only survivor, he became the BBEG's puppet until he starved to death (all the BBEG's other servants were undead and there was no edible food in the place).

Yeah, nothing strikes terror into my group more than the BBEG looking at the fighter and telling them "Protect me!" and then asking for a wisdom save.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, nothing strikes terror into my group more than the BBEG looking at the fighter and telling them "Protect me!" and then asking for a wisdom save.

Its one of the reason the berserker barbarian's immunity to charm is a lot better than some people give it credit for!

 

[Krachek]

You didn't have "none of the above". I don't think of Star Lord as a fighter. Rogue maybe. Hawkeye literally never missed and Black Widow also isn't really a fighter. They're different.

Black Panther and Cap are probably close if you assume magic that they will have at that level.

Even with a girdle of giant strength, a fighter is not going to even be in the ballpark with the Hulkster for shear power. Thor is literally the god of lightning, his weapon just helps him channel the energy and again there's no comparison.

Speaking about spare time and Golf Barton say
« Well, I played 18, shot 18...Just can't seem to miss. »
Try to apply that in DnD!

 

[Micah Sweet]

The 2003 Hulk film isn't part of the MCU btw.

Actually, it is. Its just not wholly owned by Disney, so they can't make another one without collaboration and they can't host it on Disney+. Its the same with the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Actually, it is. Its just not wholly owned by Disney, so they can't make another one without collaboration and they can't host it on Disney+. Its the same with the Tom Holland Spider-Man movies.

Nevermind, I thought you were talking about the Incredible Hulk, not Hulk.

Stupid confusing green monsters.

 

[Maxperson]

I voted for hulk although 'in the big gap' also would be fair if we're just talking the measure of raw strength here, spiderman is strong but he isn't '20th level fighter strong' he leans more into the rogue stealth area of things IMO than a pure fighter, ability wise i think the fighter could cherry-pick abilities from the lower teirs, widow's hand to hand, hawkeye's skill with a bow (i know he apparently 'never misses' ever, so maybe not quite on hawkeye's level but at least above 'above average' abilities) steve's shield throwing abilities.

Spideman can pick up a nearly 2 ton pickup and throw it down the block. You think a 20th level fighter is stronger?

 

[Maxperson]

More reasons to see Thor as a 20th level fighter: without a magic weapon, he's badass but still subject to being beaten down by a horde of mooks.

No he isn't.

In Thor 1, he's grappled by orderlies (who aren't high CR guys), which makes sense: it took four of them,

He was changed by the power of Odin and had ordinary human strength. Had he the power of Thor, even without the hammer, he could have benched 100+ tons and those orderlies would have had an easier time wrestling a tornado.

Later on we see him fully healed but unequipped vs a SHIELD Strike team (CR 5 or so each) - no one's trying to kill anyone but Thor is able to get through them without getting dropped, although he does need to work at it and is tired by the time he gets to Mjollnir (low hp) - and it's heavily implied that Hawkeye (level 20 ranger with a minor magic bow) could have taken him out - pretty easily at that point.

That was just plot. Without plot, there's no way they are more than a minor annoyance to him, even without the hammer.

 

[Maxperson]

Whilst I don't think a 20 level fighter (or barbarian, or anything) should be nearly as strong as Hulk, I think the official lifting math is a tad silly. I think it should ramp up significantly past strength 18, as otherwise many big creatures are actually pathetically weak, and there's no way to represent truly super strong things. Under the current rules Thor would need strength of at least 7000!

Lifting is strength x10 pounds. Thor can lift 100+ tons. That would require a strength of 20,000+.

 

[Krachek]

it is very hard to transfer MCU to DnD. Movie ( or comics) have the great advantage to script everything. each power is scale and time just to fit perfectly the story. In MCU heroes have variable strength as the special effects increase in quality, and variable level of powers as the story need it. In term of DnD it would be the most rail roading style of play.