D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[HammerMan]

Right. The fact that they lost top spot in the TTRPG market had nothing to do with it.

it didn't.... only after it was the only edition (second best selling of all time) that had a split with it's own previus staying in print did it loose any steam... and it only started to falter as the edition was stopping to be supported...

A WotC spokesperson has informed ICv2 that Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition has already gone back to press more than a week before its scheduled street date next Friday, June 6th. Sell-in of 4th Edition has “far exceeded expectations” and even though the initial print run for 4th Edition was 50% higher than the order for the previous D&D 3.5 Edition, WotC has now realized that it is necessary to go back to press to meet anticipated reorder demand.

Earlier this week reports indicated that Buy.com was breaking the street date and shipping copies of 4th Edition (and that 4th Edition elements were available as Bit Torrent downloads, see “D&D 4E Out Early”), clear evidence of the highly anticipated nature of D&D 4th Edition.

Sell-in for 4th Edition turned out to be considerably higher than for 3.5 and the number of pre-orders keeps rising. The D&D 4E Core Rulebook Gift Set made it up to #5 on Amazon.com’s rankings today (Amazon appears to be observing the June 6th street date).

 

[HammerMan]

There are plenty of complex options out there. Don't want to play a champion fighter? Play something else. It's not like you're lacking options.

okay what has non magic with multi scaleing choices... lets say 3 (1/3 of wizard) sets of options that have 7 choices per set (even PHB no level of wizard spells have less options then 10)

 

[Cadence]

it didn't.... only after it was the only edition (second best selling of all time) that had a split with it's own previus staying in print did it loose any steam... and it only started to falter as the edition was stopping to be supported...

A WotC spokesperson has informed ICv2 that Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition has already gone back to press more than a week before its scheduled street date next Friday, June 6th. Sell-in of 4th Edition has “far exceeded expectations” and even though the initial print run for 4th Edition was 50% higher than the order for the previous D&D 3.5 Edition, WotC has now realized that it is necessary to go back to press to meet anticipated reorder demand.

Earlier this week reports indicated that Buy.com was breaking the street date and shipping copies of 4th Edition (and that 4th Edition elements were available as Bit Torrent downloads, see “D&D 4E Out Early”), clear evidence of the highly anticipated nature of D&D 4th Edition.

Sell-in for 4th Edition turned out to be considerably higher than for 3.5 and the number of pre-orders keeps rising. The D&D 4E Core Rulebook Gift Set made it up to #5 on Amazon.com’s rankings today (Amazon appears to be observing the June 6th street date).

If draft day hype was a great way to judge a career, would every 1st pick in the NFL be in the hall of fame?

Comparing sales of a full edition to a half edition? And how large was the extant market when 1, 2, and 3 hit the street.

 

[HammerMan]

The other classes also need to make choices. Yes, they have a baker's dozen or so ritual spells if they have them. It depends on the campaign how easy it is to find and add new spells. Can they just go down to Scrolls R Us and buy them (how much?), or are they mostly limited to the two per level that they get automatically?

lets say a campaign makes it to 9th level with 0 scrolls and 0 spell books in it for the wizard.
they start with 6 spells at 1st level and get 16 more for the 8 levels... so at level 9 with no treasure no extra they have 22 spells over 5 levels.
8 1st
4 2nd
4 3rd
4 4th
2 5th

They also have to decide what type of wizard. Evokers have the cool "my allies get out of jail damage free" card but not everyone takes an evoker for various reasons. Oh, and nobody ever casts counterspell on that wizard floating gently down or targets them (or casts dispel magic) when they're relying on a concentration buff. Meanwhile the wizard has apparently unlimited spell slots which is a nice trick not to mention that every wizard is Batman and has the right spell prepped for every encounter.

no but sometimes they DO have the right spells preped... do you know how often the fighter gets to trade out there abilities?

Wizards and fighters are different. If you have a 5 minute work day and don't ever try to balance out encounters then it's going to be an issue. It hasn't been in games I've played in. Sometimes the wizard shines, as they should. Sometimes the bad guys focus fire on the wizard and they run and hide or ask the fighter to save them.

you are just lieing. Not 1 complaint came with a 5 minute work day not 1
look over my 5-7 encounter day examples

So yes. People need to make decisions about what to do with their PCs based on the style of the game. What else is new?

not new, but if you want simple you can be any of a dozen options... complext is ALWAYS casters.

 

[BrokenTwin]

There is no class in D&D 5E that accurately represents the complex technical fighter I'd like to play. The Battlemaster archetype scratches the surface, but it being a subclass instead of an entire class means that it has limited scope. Give me a Warlord that combines Bardic Inspiration with Maneuver Dice to make a martial battlefield controller and I'd be ecstatic.

 

[HammerMan]

If pre-NFL hype was a great way to judge a career, every 1st pick in the NFL would be in the hall of fame.

Comparing sales of a full edition to a half edition?

And how large was the extant market when 1, 2, and 3 hit the street.

okay, show your work

show a time that pathfinder passed 4e before 4e was winding down

 

[DND_Reborn]

Not that it is much to the point, but I expect just about every edition will do better than the last simply due to the prevalence of the Internet, forums, and such which in the 80s and 90s weren't able to increase sales then--which relied back in the day on word of mouth and retail book stores and hobby shops.

 

[Oofta]

it didn't.... only after it was the only edition (second best selling of all time) that had a split with it's own previus staying in print did it loose any steam... and it only started to falter as the edition was stopping to be supported...

A WotC spokesperson has informed ICv2 that Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition has already gone back to press more than a week before its scheduled street date next Friday, June 6th. Sell-in of 4th Edition has “far exceeded expectations” and even though the initial print run for 4th Edition was 50% higher than the order for the previous D&D 3.5 Edition, WotC has now realized that it is necessary to go back to press to meet anticipated reorder demand.

Earlier this week reports indicated that Buy.com was breaking the street date and shipping copies of 4th Edition (and that 4th Edition elements were available as Bit Torrent downloads, see “D&D 4E Out Early”), clear evidence of the highly anticipated nature of D&D 4th Edition.

Sell-in for 4th Edition turned out to be considerably higher than for 3.5 and the number of pre-orders keeps rising. The D&D 4E Core Rulebook Gift Set made it up to #5 on Amazon.com’s rankings today (Amazon appears to be observing the June 6th street date).

I'm not getting into edition wars again. I don't want to ever play anything resembling 4E again, 5E is the most popular version of D&D ever and we aren't going back. Have a good one.

 

[DND_Reborn]

There is no class in D&D 5E that accurately represents the complex technical fighter I'd like to play. The Battlemaster archetype scratches the surface, but it being a subclass instead of an entire class means that it has limited scope. Give me a Warlord that combines Bardic Inspiration with Maneuver Dice to make a martial battlefield controller and I'd be ecstatic.

I agree I think more options in combat (as well as outside of it) for fighters would be nice. It bothers me that 99% of the time the best option is always "attack". There is rarely any reason to do anything else--no maneuvering, no tactics, virtually nothing.

Things like position, grappling, etc. should be more impactful IMO, but the design of 5E is simplicity so such things have gone by the way side.

 

[Oofta]

lets say a campaign makes it to 9th level with 0 scrolls and 0 spell books in it for the wizard.
they start with 6 spells at 1st level and get 16 more for the 8 levels... so at level 9 with no treasure no extra they have 22 spells over 5 levels.
8 1st
4 2nd
4 3rd
4 4th
2 5th



no but sometimes they DO have the right spells preped... do you know how often the fighter gets to trade out there abilities?

you are just lieing. Not 1 complaint came with a 5 minute work day not 1
look over my 5-7 encounter day examples

not new, but if you want simple you can be any of a dozen options... complext is ALWAYS casters.

I'm done with this. It hasn't been an issue in games I've played to 20th level. Have a good one.