D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Crimson Longinus]

It doesn't have to be point based.

For example, the urban fantasy game I play has psionics and wizardry use the same system. But itis a stress and threshold system. Taking stress , mental damage, and physical damage the more you use your mind powers feels more thematically aligned than "I spent a 3rd level slot to swap minds with the guard". So there is no problem there with a wizard, sorcerer, witch, warlock, priest, and psionicist using the same system in that game because it was designed to.

But why can't spell points/slots represent ability to withstand mental stress caused by wielding such powers? Why would we need to create some alternate system for that? D&D measures physical stress with hit points.

Again, D&D's magic classes and spells were built for a slot system. 5e's DMG point system works but it changes A LOT of how adventuring works because of the huge increase of versatility and changes of resources.

I mean... the point system lets you chuck out your highest level spells at double the rate just by ignoring lower level magic. It's far from "just use points". Caster supremacy can easily became a problem with point based spell casters sing 5e spells.

Yes, and this is why I prefer slots. Changing system alters balance and creating some other system would do so too.

 

[beancounter]

They’re just different spells. They’re spells, but from a different source and maybe a lil weird, but not really that special. Near as I can tell. I am sure I’m missing something because every time Dark Sun comes up there’s a grip ton of hand wringing about getting Psionics right. It just seems like spells to me. Spells with a different but not much different rule system. Sorcerer, but with unique spells. I don’t get why it’s a big deal and why it’s not just a different spell list. Help me understand. Or confirm, it’s just spells With a new name.

Pick up a copy of the 1E/2E rules if you want to see just how different psionics are from spells.

 

[Minigiant]

But why can't spell points/slots represent ability to withstand mental stress caused by wielding such powers? Why would we need to create some alternate system for that? D&D measures physical stress with hit points.

Never said it can't. Like I said, it would feel wrong or off.
But you could make weapon attacks us slots too.
Or make all magic weapon attacks from equipped wands and staffs by that logic of "not creating new systems".
But that would be weird or feel wrong too.

Yes, and this is why I prefer slots. Changing system alters balance and creating some other system would do so too.

Or you could build a balanced psionics system to match the game.

That's the issue.
Psionics using Slots feels weird because of our various cultures' depictions of mind powers doesn't work like that.
Psionics using Spells will always be a kludge as Spells were designed to use and balanced around slots.

Slots based Magic is strange. We only accept it because "magic is mysterious woooooh". Litterally only one nonD&D series or story uses slots. One.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Never said it can't. Like I said, it would feel wrong or off.

To you. That's completely subjective. It doesn't feel wrong to me.

Or you could build a balanced psionics system to match the game.

In theory. But it is very difficult. It is insane amount of work to satisfy subjective issues of handful of people, whilst creating an unnecessary parallel system that would confuse the rest.

That's the issue.
Psionics using Slots feels weird because of our various cultures' depictions of mind powers doesn't work like that.
Psionics using Spells will always be a kludge as Spells were designed to use and balanced around slots.

Slots based Magic is strange. We only accept it because "magic is mysterious woooooh". Litterally only one nonD&D series or story uses slots. One.

Right. The criticism of slots applies just as much to magic than to psionics. In a lot of stories magic (and psionics, which is just another name for magic) works differently. So what? This is how it works in D&D. D&D cannot nor should it try to emulate all wildly different magic systems from different sources.

 

[nevin]

They’re just different spells. They’re spells, but from a different source and maybe a lil weird, but not really that special. Near as I can tell. I am sure I’m missing something because every time Dark Sun comes up there’s a grip ton of hand wringing about getting Psionics right. It just seems like spells to me. Spells with a different but not much different rule system. Sorcerer, but with unique spells. I don’t get why it’s a big deal and why it’s not just a different spell list. Help me understand. Or confirm, it’s just spells With a new name.

couple of things. One people seem to like fantasy much more than sci fi. Psionics just feels scifi. I think it's an uncanny valley thing you add psionics to peoples fantasy and they just don't like it.
two thier really hasn't been a good implementation of psionics. 1st edition it started out as special abilities devils had and then became an optional rule for players.
Three any DM that complains about the magical effects that "change the narrative" is going to hate the idea of mind meddling wizards who'l eventually be able to erase/change memories and communicate with anything.
four if you take away all the telepathic and mind effecting memories you get a wierd sorcerer and the people that like psionics aren't happy.

It really just never goes well. I've only seen it work in Dark sun and that worked because magic was so rare and the entire world was buillt around it and prepared for it. Though to be honest Dark sun is really like a GammaWorld/D&D baby so it just may be the Uncanny Valley effect doesn't apply there.

 

[Scars Unseen]

This is how it works in D&D. D&D cannot nor should it trey to emulate all wildly different magic systems from different sources.

If you consider magic and psionics the same, which D&D has not consistently done. And since it has not consistently done so, it also has not consistently treated them the same mechanically. So by the "because D&D" argument, designing different mechanics for psionics to better fit the theme is fine, as D&D has done so before in multiple editions in different ways. In fact, by that argument, designing psionics to just be another form of magic with a matching base mechanic would be the oddity.

 

[Azzy]

I'm not tied to a point-based casting system (the DMG has me if I want that), but the psion has its own flavor and should be its own class with its own subclasses (based on the different psionic disciplines) and its own spell powers list. We need psicrystals, astral constructs, psychmetabolism, the iconic psionic attacks and defenses, dorjes, psicrowns, thought eaters, callers in darkness, blues, brain moles, etc.

 

[aco175]

I have always been turned off by psionics. We tried it with Dark Sun back in the day and maybe the Dark Sun world also turned me off to it, but psionics always felt like power gamers that want to play a wizard, but not have his spells countered. Feels like you need to add another PC to the table to handle just that part.

The newer editions with classes like sorcerer, have casters that are not wizard restricted. 5e even opens slots for several spells and I feel the need to add another system is not needed. Keep it in a Dark Sun release if you want, but to me it is just spells like arcane/divine that should follow the same rules as all magic.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm not tied to a point-based casting system (the DMG has me if I want that), but the psion has its own flavor and should be its own class with its own subclasses (based on the different psionic disciplines) and its own spell powers list. We need psicrystals, astral constructs, psychmetabolism, the iconic psionic attacks and defenses, dorjes, psicrowns, thought eaters, callers in darkness, blues, brain moles, etc.

"Psi crystals" is an awesome Artificer psionic subclass. It can merge with the UA Artificer Archivist subclass. The psi crystals make the modernesque Archivist feel more D&D, and the Archivist tablet makes the crystal more cool.

 

[Yaarel]

Psionics just feels scifi.

There are medieval, animistic and mystic, ways to describe the power of a mind