D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Vaalingrade]

You mean previous editions? So you relegating people who enjoy a harder core to previous editions?

No.

I said 'you just admitted' and nothing you said mentioned previous editions. Instead, you talked about 3PP and DM's Guild. You know, the thing people always yell at me to use when I say I want something I like.

That is an assumption on your part.

Based on pretty strong observation. The other guys either went to the OSR or hang around yelling at everyone else.

Which version of D&D was steampunk that we suddenly now lost it with 5e?

There was none. And never will be.

And I deal with it instead of insulting all the non-steampunk folks.

 

[billd91]

it's gotten waaaaay easier. You used to be able to take pride in having a character hit 3rd or 5th or 10th level. Now, not so much. Also, the language of the game has been dumbed down. I needed to read the 1E DMG with a dictionary next to me and even then, you couldn't find some of the words (dweomer anyone?). Now, well you've read the 5E DMG I'm sure...

Yeah, writing for better usability isn’t dumbing things down. While I enjoy some more complex or obscure vocabulary, it’s terrible for usability.

 

[Weiley31]

Hex??? What am I, a warlock?

Cast Eldritch Blast as proof.

 

[Weiley31]

I call those kinds of games "bowsnap DMs" based on the notion that the DM usually sets up all sorts of rolls and obstacles that make doingPr anything but the prescribed action impossible. It comes from a DM who didn't want the PCs attacking a plot important villain, so when the PC pulled out his bow to shoot him, the DM made him roll a Dex check and then when he failed, declared his bowstring snapped.

Probably better than what I would do: have the Cutscene happen and have it where the death didn't occur, but the arrow hits the villain in the shoulder knocking him to the ground. Then the rest of his guards show up and engage the PCs while the two closer ones pick him up and help him away as the villain shoots a contemplable glare at the one who nailed him.

 

[jasper]

1E Deathly save against death magic, Your pc was defined by your background but only difference between mine 5th level magic user and Bill's 5th magic user was magic items and hit points. But You could create a non caster in under 3 minutes and Caster in 5 minutes. Of ANY LEVEL.
5E you need an app to create a pc in under 5 minutes.
Toxic players vs Toxic DMs. NOT a bit of difference except for the internet.
Learning pre5e find a friend that plays or Enworld for 3E. 5E acres of plenty help forums, You tube helper, etc.
1E. EDITOR WE DON'T need not stinking editor. Here is errata in Dragon number 64 photocopy it. 5E. Hey Enworld here is the errata go to this link. Bring This is the warehouse we just shipped our last copy of the PHB. Boss hey printer here is the new PHB file with the errata we release last month.
1E ONLY NERds play. 5E You get to play,, you get to play. Everyone is cool with it.
Lore losers never left.
Rules lawyers never left.
Gate keepers never left but are more visible and some different gates added.
1E let me bury the rules in three different books for you PC. 5E You just need the PHB and maybe a few photocopies from the MM if you doing summoning spells.
Nit pickers never left. Some the nits did.
Cat on the tables never left. Just new cats and players.
Technology has changed.
Cats clawing from attention. Never left.

 

[Hussar]

No one said it was the only way to challenge someone, but it is the way with the longest history and feels very D&D to a lot of people. And the changes listed above compromise that way significantly. This thread is about how D&D has changed, and people should be allowed to dislike those changes without being made to feel bad about their feelings.

That’s certainly not true.

From 2e at least, onwards, the whole “don’t name your character until 3rd level” hasn’t been true.

Longest history in the sense that it came first but hardly longest in terms of how the game is designed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Goodness gracious. Of course we don't know if you're running something specific as a DM because this is a discussion that involved hypotheticals. If we were actually in your game you would have already told us about what you were intending to run. So it's really unfair to react to someone posting about a hypothetical as if a real-world situation wouldn't have more context to inform it.

And if the players lose interest in what you have to say about the game world, maybe it's because it's not an interesting game world. Why do you assume it must be a problem with the players? If every player at your table has no interest in your game world, that sounds like your game world just isn't interesting to them. Maybe try another game world.

Why do you assume the problem must lie with the DM? Neither side is perfect.

 

[Hussar]

It also happens to be the one way that will most reliably elicit a response from the player. Most players don’t want to lose a character. Even players who write epic backstories can and will dismiss every word of it when it shows up in-game and is an inconvenience. I’ve watched it happen. But most players will guard their PC’s life. Act cautiously when they know it’s possible to lose their character, etc. So challenge through character death is the only reliable challenge. Threaten an NPC the players say they really care about? The PCs will simply let them die before going into a fight with anything less than max hp and spells. Destruction of a town or village? Nah. Too bad for them. If the only thing the players actually care about is their own PC’s life, then that’s the only thing you can challenge them with.

Wow.

You really need better players of this is your experience.

Does rather dovetail with the notion that DnD is about combat though.

 

[Micah Sweet]

And if it also increases another type of challenge? Would you describe it with a blanket "reduces challenge" when it in fact reduces some types of challenge but increases others? That would seem to be a dishonestly selective description in such a case.

It would depend on how much it increased other forms of challenge. It decreased the first one quite a bit.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How is reduction of character death and item loss bad for the hobby if the people who are engaging in this don't want it ins the first place?

Killer DMs are still killing and finding was to take away items they gave out without the slightest hint that they made a mistake giving out something they didn't want the party to have. No one has lost anything.

Let me ask you something: is any campaign in which a character dies for any reason other than their own player-generated decision run by a "killer GM"?