D&D 5E Familiars, what for?

Please don't project whatever issues you have with your own DMs on me. I'm not them.

I'm not the only one who has read "issues" about the way you stated applying: "My general policy is to kill familiars on sight anyway".

Some of us around here have a more nuanced approach, including discussing with the player, for example in session 0. Familiars are necessarily recognised on sight anyway, and sometimes the NPCs have better things to do, etc.
 

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It isn't just flyby. Owls tick pretty much all the boxes you want in a familiar:

1. They are flyers with a high speed, allowing them to bypass many obstacles, conduct aerial surveillance, and escape ground-based foes.
2. They have top-notch Perception (a +3 bonus and advantage on essentially all checks), coupled with 120-foot darkvision.
3. They have decent Stealth as well (a +3 bonus).
4. They are apex predators who rarely have to worry about being attacked by other animals.
5. They're really cool. What with Harry Potter, half the players probably had owls on their shortlist before even looking at their stats.

While I certainly agree with toning owls down a bit, I think much more needs to be done to boost the other options and especially the non-flyers. Cats are the classic familiar, but they really don't have much to recommend them mechanically. Rats, toads, and spiders are just terrible. And then there are the aquatic-only options... I mean, fish? Really? You're going to have a familiar that you have to carry around in a bowl most of the time?
Sure, but I bet if I get rid of flyby (which I don't do right now), I'd see fewer owls or reskinned owls and more of other options. Almost every player cites this as their main reason for taking owl in my experience.
 

That would only make sense if the archers looked like:
View attachment 153652

:) but then these are not kobolds, I would never have sent my owl after cuties like this...

I agree that the help tactic is fine now and then, it's a question of it being abused and making things non-fun for the group. We had to tell one of our players that their familiar was starting to get PTSD from dying every combat. An invisible flying creature doing all the exploration can also simply be boring for most of the group, even if it is a valid tactic.

We just limit familiars and don't allow imps while reminding people that anything they can do the bad guys can also do, so we have kind of a mutual agreement. Now and then is fine, they should be useful in many ways. Just don't abuse it. 🤷‍♂️

Indeed, it's all about the potential abuse (from DM or players), which is why it needs discussing out of the game.
 

I'm not the only one who has read "issues" about the way you stated applying: "My general policy is to kill familiars on sight anyway".

Some of us around here have a more nuanced approach, including discussing with the player, for example in session 0. Familiars are necessarily recognised on sight anyway, and sometimes the NPCs have better things to do, etc.
Your projection appears to be based on a DM unfairly taking out your familiar. Telling a player that their familiar will be at risk if they put them at risk is not the same thing as unfairly taking them out. My players know ahead of time what the threat is and can then take steps to mitigate the chance of the familiar getting taken out. That is fair.

A favorite tactic of my players is to cast dragon's breath on their familiars. Monsters, given the opportunity, will attack the familiar. They know this going in. It's their risk to take.
 

I mean...good on you for being up front about that...but that sounds needlessly punitive to me. "Oh, you interested in that thing? Keep in mind, my policy will always be to destroy it immediately. Yes, every single time." That just comes across as opposed to players having fun with something.
There's nothing "needlessly punitive" about targeting a player's resources when they put them at risk. That's just part of the game. What I want players to understand is that their familiar isn't somehow off-limits as I see in many other games - the very same games where some DMs then turn around and complain that familiars are too powerful! Well, yeah! If there are no risks or trade-offs to using the familiar in certain ways, then it may well boost their intended power!
 

Your projection appears to be based on a DM unfairly taking out your familiar.

What is "fair", exactly ?

Telling a player that their familiar will be at risk if they put them at risk is not the same thing as unfairly taking them out.

And saying "My general policy is to kill familiars on sight anyway" is not the same thing as "Telling a player that their familiar will be at risk if they put them at risk." And what does "at risk" mean anyway ?

My players know ahead of time what the threat is and can then take steps to mitigate the chance of the familiar getting taken out. That is fair.

Well, players at our table usually do NOT know what the threat is, and it's not because they are idiots, it's because adversaries and situations are not, in general known and visible to them. They might have a bit of information if they do their research, but sometimes it's not possible, or it's not accurate. And sometimes they are just surprised.

Moreover, it's not fair either if every single monster recognises a familiar for what it is and has the means to target and kill it. There is no fairness in these statements, inherently.

A favorite tactic of my players is to cast dragon's breath on their familiars. Monsters, given the opportunity, will attack the familiar. They know this going in. It's their risk to take.

And so every single enemy can recognise a familiar for what it is, and of course, every single familiar will be ready with dragon's breath...
 

What is "fair", exactly ?



And saying "My general policy is to kill familiars on sight anyway" is not the same thing as "Telling a player that their familiar will be at risk if they put them at risk." And what does "at risk" mean anyway ?



Well, players at our table usually do NOT know what the threat is, and it's not because they are idiots, it's because adversaries and situations are not, in general known and visible to them. They might have a bit of information if they do their research, but sometimes it's not possible, or it's not accurate. And sometimes they are just surprised.

Moreover, it's not fair either if every single monster recognises a familiar for what it is and has the means to target and kill it. There is no fairness in these statements, inherently.



And so every single enemy can recognise a familiar for what it is, and of course, every single familiar will be ready with dragon's breath...
As someone who played a wizard with a familiar, I was absolutely fine with my DM targeting my familiar in combat.

It made narrative sense, too. If an owl is flying around the ogre's face, distracting it and helping out the fighter, that ogre is going to take an angry swipe at the owl.

It helps my allies out too, because the ogre just spent an attack on my familiar instead of on the party!


I will say I am getting deja vu, haven't we had this debate more than once on this forum?
 

What is "fair", exactly ?
The details of your example are scant, but it would appear you were in some sense unaware of threats being present or, at least, threats to your owl. Is it reasonable in the context of that campaign setting that monsters like kobolds hunt creatures like owls for sustenance or for their feathers, etc.? Was the owl keeping watch for threats so that it's PP applied to noticing the kobolds? Was the owl hiding? If so, did you make a Stealth check and failed compared to the kobold's PP? Or, alternatively, did the DM make a Stealth check to resolve the kobolds getting the drop on the owl? Was the owl surprised? Did the owl lose initiative? Or did the familiar just die without any of those things taking place? Because if that's what happened, then that definitely seems unfair to me!

And saying "My general policy is to kill familiars on sight anyway" is not the same thing as "Telling a player that their familiar will be at risk if they put them at risk." And what does "at risk" mean anyway ?
"At risk" means that you put them in harm's way. If you don't want them targeted, don't do that. If you want advantage on your attack via the Help action, know that your familiar is now a target. If they're flying around spewing fire, a monster might loose an arrow at them or throw a rock. They might even ready an attack to do it.

Well, players at our table usually do NOT know what the threat is, and it's not because they are idiots, it's because adversaries and situations are not, in general known and visible to them. They might have a bit of information if they do their research, but sometimes it's not possible, or it's not accurate. And sometimes they are just surprised.

Moreover, it's not fair either if every single monster recognises a familiar for what it is and has the means to target and kill it. There is no fairness in these statements, inherently.

And so every single enemy can recognise a familiar for what it is, and of course, every single familiar will be ready with dragon's breath...
Failure to telegraph threats sets up situations where attacks or traps can be perceived by players as a "gotcha."

Does a monster need to know the owl flapping around their heads, making it easier for an adventurer to hit them, is a familiar in order to target them? No.
 

"At risk" means that you put them in harm's way. If you don't want them targeted, don't do that. If you want advantage on your attack via the Help action, know that your familiar is now a target. If they're flying around spewing fire, a monster might loose an arrow at them or throw a rock. They might even ready an attack to do it.
That's got a different nuance from "My general policy is to kill familiars on sight anyway" so I can certainly Lyxen's point about NPCs killing a small animal in their environment just because it happens to be a PC's familiar.
If I had a crow familiar out fluttering from rooftop to rooftop as it observes a rival NPC walking through the town's market day, would the NPC kill the familiar on sight? Is that really your general policy?
 

That's got a different nuance from "My general policy is to kill familiars on sight anyway" so I can certainly Lyxen's point about NPCs killing a small animal in their environment just because it happens to be a PC's familiar.
If I had a crow familiar out fluttering from rooftop to rooftop as it observes a rival NPC walking through the town's market day, would the NPC kill the familiar on sight? Is that really your general policy?
I think you are exaggerating the poster's point. I see it as no different than enemies targeting the cleric because they have the power to heal others, or charging past the fighter to attack the fireball-slinging wizard.

You seem to be adding dogma to a poster's general strategy.
 

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