M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?

[Jd Smith1]

The fact that the vast majority of his fans have no idea he was a Holocaust denier.

Could you post a link to proof of what the vast majority of his fans know?

 

[Jd Smith1]

It isn't. But if it is, you should have zero problem with the things I'm saying, since my freedom of speech is inalienable.

Oh, I support your right to say what you want, however poorly I view you as a person.

 

[Willie the Duck]

No, it is not, because it takes the stand that 1) Freedom of speech is not inalienable.

Freedom of speech has literally nothing to do with the conversation. No one is keeping anyone from speaking. Instead, people (or their posthumous esteem in the eyes of others) are receiving the consequences of that speech. No more, no less.

 

[Blue Orange]

So, I admit I was wrong. People have presented enough information to convince me Phil Barker probably was on the board of a Holocaust-denial journal into the 2000s. It's a little weird, but then people are weird, and don't always make sense to us.

Besides, Nazis are one of the few groups 90% of people can still agree to hate (used to be 99). Hate to give that up.

I'm not losing my interest in Tekumel, but I'm going to look a little askance at the guy himself from now on.

(BTW, a lot of what we think of as the Lovecraft mythos is actually developed by Sandy Petersen, who's a bit rightier than people around here like but has never actually been a Nazi as far as I know.)

 

[Fifth Element]

Please quote where I said that Baker was not a racist. I think you are confused.

You claimed that I was merely rumor-mongering when I made the argument that Barker appeared to be racist based on the available evidence. The point here is that this is a red herring, because your comment made it clear that don't care whether a creator is racist or not, And then you proceeded to say that he was on the editorial board of a Holocaust-denial journal, which does, in fact, make him racist.

 

[Fifth Element]

Could you post a link to proof of what the vast majority of his fans know?

Sorry, I was merely giving them the benefit of the doubt. I was being charitable, assuming that the majority of people would not support someone that they knew was a Holocaust denier. And given that we have evidence the Tekumel Foundation had this information and knowingly covered it up, there's good reason to believe that it was not widely-disseminated information.

As such, I made a reasonable inference. Proof is for math. We're just having a discussion here.

 

[Jd Smith1]

You claimed that I was merely rumor-mongering when I made the argument that Barker appeared to be racist based on the available evidence. The point here is that this is a red herring, because your comment made it clear that don't care whether a creator is racist or not, And then you proceeded to say that he was on the editorial board of a Holocaust-denial journal, which does, in fact, make him racist.

Actually, it makes him an anti-Semitic It is important to the words that actually apply.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Sorry, I was merely giving them the benefit of the doubt.

No, you're just making things up. Time to put you aside.

 

[Jd Smith1]

So, I admit I was wrong. People have presented enough information to convince me Phil Barker probably was on the board of a Holocaust-denial journal into the 2000s. It's a little weird, but then people are weird, and don't always make sense to us.

Besides, Nazis are one of the few groups 90% of people can still agree to hate (used to be 99). Hate to give that up.

I'm not losing my interest in Tekumel, but I'm going to look a little askance at the guy himself from now on.

(BTW, a lot of what we think of as the Lovecraft mythos is actually developed by Sandy Petersen, who's a bit rightier than people around here like but has never actually been a Nazi as far as I know.)

Lovecraft wasn't a Nazi; in the early-mid 30s he expressed admiration for Hitler's handling of the depression and political chaos (this was the period where Hitler was also Time Magazine's Man of the Year), but turned against Hitler and the NSDAP before his death in '37.

The problem with Nazis is that for certain age groups it has morphed from a clear political definition into a generic term for 'people I don't like'. It's literally getting over-used into oblivion.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Freedom of speech has literally nothing to do with the conversation. No one is keeping anyone from speaking. Instead, people (or their posthumous esteem in the eyes of others) are receiving the consequences of that speech. No more, no less.

How does a dead man suffer consequences? As to his legacy, his opinions were never a secret. He stated them publically and at great length.