M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?

[Dire Bare]

Wasn't the requirement in the book 'Federal service', not necessarily in the military?

Yes.

 

[Ancalagon]

DId he get paid? If so good. I know some well know fantasy authors wrote soft porn in late 60s and 70s.

Are you somehow equating writing soft porn/erotica with pro-nazi texts and holocaust denialism?

I'm not saying that is what meant, but is sounds that way... so what were you trying to convey?

edit: I am honestly trying to give you a chance to clarify here, I'm not trying "accuse you".

 

[Ancalagon]

I immediately thought of Marion Zimmer Bradley who served as a mentor for many young women interested in writing science fiction/fantasy. When Bradley's children stepped forward with allegations of abuse it must have been devastating for those who admired Bradley, were inspired by her, and especially for those whom she had mentored. I've never played Tekumel, and even without this revelation it's unlikely I ever would have. But it's pretty clear that it had an influence on players and game creators back in the 70s and I imagine many of them are feeling hurt, confused, sad, and maybe even a little angry about this.

David Edding's work held a fond place in my heart as I read so many of his books as a teenager. Then horrible things came out about him

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I guess I'm lucky, insofar as I've never regarded David Eddings, Piers Anthony, Orson Scott Card, Marion Bradley, Woody Allen, Bill Cosby or Robert Heinlein with any particular fondness, so I haven't been disappointed.

I'd be mortified if Gene Wolfe or Mervyn Peake turned out to be a Nazi, an abuser or a pedo, but I think it's pretty unlikely at this stage.

I only know MAR Barker from other people saying or writing about how seminal and influential his work was; I've never read anything Tekumel-related.

I have a signed book by Rolf Harris, where he drew a rolfaroo for me. Unfortunately, he turned out to be a pedo, so that was disappointing.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

A few pages back there were a few posters expressing disbelief that Barker could hold these beliefs while being an educated and intelligent man, with a lot of exposure and interest in foreign cultures.

Please don't fall into the trap and think that believing in terrible things is incompatible with being an educated, intelligent cosmopolitan. Its a comforting delusion, sustained by the belief "if they educate themselves, they'll see the truth."

Sure, you can have the uneducated thug, but you also have people like Houston Stewart Chamberlain, an educated polyglot who was a member of the British Liberal party but nevertheless eventually laid the ideological foundation for Nazi theory.

Intelligent and educated extremists can be more dangerous since they are capable of intellectually justifying the things they believe (even if they didn't come to those beliefs originally in such a way). There were countless smart and educated people who really came to believe in Stalinism and continued to justify it well after the point that its cruelty had become clear.

 

[Dire Bare]

It's been a while since I've read Starship Troopers, or anything by Heinlein. But presenting a problematic society in a science-fiction novel isn't the same as promoting the ideals of such a society in the real world.

From what I remember of Troopers, the human society in the book wasn't presented as a utopia or ideal society, just a possible future. It had fascist elements, but wasn't a full on fascist society. Verhoeven didn't pull his movie's satire from thin air, of course. The war with the bugs highlighted some of the problems of this future society.

I remember Starship Troopers as being classic sci-fi, an exploration of ideas and possible futures, both positive and negative. But like I said, it's been decades since I've read it.

EDIT: It probably wouldn't work out well IRL, but I've always liked the idea of full citizenship being reserved for those willing to serve the community.

Heh, just realized that this could be taken as a defense of Barker. Its not intended to be.

While authors can write about problematic sci-fi or fantasy societies without actually endorsing the ideas behind them . . . that's not what Barker did. Barker's "Serpent's Wake" is a neo-Nazi utopian fantasy, and he deserves the disdain he's getting for it.

 

[Baron Opal II]

A few pages back there were a few posters expressing disbelief that Barker could hold these beliefs while being an educated and intelligent man, with a lot of exposure and interest in foreign cultures.

Please don't fall into the trap and think that believing in terrible things is incompatible with being an educated, intelligent cosmopolitan. Its a comforting delusion, sustained by the belief "if they educate themselves, they'll see the truth."

You know, I know that. I've seen it before. And, yet, it was still a surprise and still very disappointing.

 

[Umbran]

Yes.

Heinlein's depiction of this is a bit inconsistent. While he and the books claim that civil service is also an option to gain the franchise, the characters within the book largely speak and act as if military service is the usual way the franchise is earned.

 

[Dire Bare]

Heinlein's depiction of this is a bit inconsistent. While he and the books claim that civil service is also an option to gain the franchise, the characters within the book largely speak and act as if military service is the usual way the franchise is earned.

Now I want to go read it again! It's been so long . . .

I'm not really arguing with you, I'm assuming you've read it more recently or have better recall of the story. But, the main characters all chose the military option, its a military sci-fi story, so the military aspect of civil service is going to be emphasized.

 

[MGibster]

Heinlein's depiction of this is a bit inconsistent. While he and the books claim that civil service is also an option to gain the franchise, the characters within the book largely speak and act as if military service is the usual way the franchise is earned.

Well the book does follow the people who join the military so that's probably part of it. And while they do emphasize they'll do what they can to find everyone something they can do for their service, including counting the hairs on caterpillars, I agree that it appeared as though military service was the most common way to earn enfranchisement. While I in no way endorse such a form of enfranchisement, I can see the logic behind only allowing people willing to have served the state the opportunity to run it.