Level Up (A5E) Please check me on this Encounter Math

[Stalker0]

All,

I have a potential big fight coming for my players and want to ensure I am using the new encounter design math correctly.

I have 5 level 4 players (so they are a Tier 1 party as I understand it). A hard fight for this group is a total CR of 10 according to the chart.


The fight includes a CR6 legendary wolf. That gives 4 left in the CR budget. I am using a pack of regular wolves along with it, that are CR 1/4. However, since the party is Tier 1, I am supposed to treat them as CR 1/2. So that means 8 CR 1/2 wolves to give me the 4 left I have in the budget.

So we have 1 CR 6 wolf and 8 wolves as a hard encounter for 5 4th level characters. Did I calculate everything correctly? I wasn't sure if there was any kind of "multiple monster" multiplier you use in LU.

 

[Morrus]

CR 6 is the max single monster CR for a level 4 party. It's gonna be very tough!

 

[Kinematics]

At surface, it seems correct. However the note about Maximum Monster CR on page 42 of T&T indicates that because the highest monster's CR (6) is 50% higher than the average character level (4), it should be considered an "impossible matchup".

Edit:

Also, from your description, the main wolf seems to qualify as an 'elite' monster, which means the amount of CR space it takes up in the encounter CR should be doubled (p40, 44). In this case, 6 x 2 = 12 points of CR is occupied by the main wolf. That puts it over the cap of 10 CR for the encounter, so even ignoring the "impossible matchup", there's no encounter space for the supplementary wolves.

Based on the above, a CR 4 elite wolf + 4 CR 1/4 wolves (boosted to 1/2 for being in tier 1) would qualify as 'hard'.

 

[Composer99]

Sorry, I don't have anything to contribute except to say that when I first read the thread title, I thought it said "Please check me on this Encounter Meth", which definitely left an impression, let me tell you.

 

[Stalker0]

At surface, it seems correct. However the note about Maximum Monster CR on page 42 of T&T indicates that because the highest monster's CR (6) is 50% higher than the average character level (4), it should be considered an "impossible matchup".

Edit:

Also, from your description, the main wolf seems to qualify as an 'elite' monster, which means the amount of CR space it takes up in the encounter CR should be doubled (p40, 44). In this case, 6 x 2 = 12 points of CR is occupied by the main wolf. That puts it over the cap of 10 CR for the encounter, so even ignoring the "impossible matchup", there's no encounter space for the supplementary wolves.

Based on the above, a CR 4 elite wolf + 4 CR 1/4 wolves (boosted to 1/2 for being in tier 1) would qualify as 'hard'.

I didn’t technically use the elite rules, but the creature is slightly legendary (1 legendary action and 1 resistance). Does that count as “elite”?

also this creatures CR is allowed per the encounter chart, as max cr is 6 for 5 level 4 players. I assume the chart is more exact than the guidance, though clearly still very hard

 

[Kinematics]

also this creatures CR is allowed per the encounter chart, as max cr is 6 for 5 level 4 players. I assume the chart is more exact than the guidance, though clearly still very hard

The max CR listed on the chart appears to be the "50% higher than the character level" rating from the section titled "Maximum Monster CR" on page 42.

Also, I misread. It's not that "50% higher" is the impossible matchup; it's greater than "50% higher". So for level 4 characters, CR 6 is the max, and CR 7 would be "impossible".

So yes, CR 6 would be allowed for your setup, and the only question is whether it qualifies as an "elite" monster, which would double its CR rating for the purposes of calculating the total encounter CR.

As for elite vs legendary, it seems that legendary creatures are intended to be a challenge to about 3 characters, while elites are intended to be a challenge for about 5-6 characters. That is a distinction that I wasn't making in my original post. As long as your boss wolf is properly 'legendary' and not 'elite', then the overall rating holds.

Though there are also additional factors which can modify the CR calculation. For example, if the attack takes place at night, in the dark, that can add an extra 1/2 CR, so you would have to remove one wolf to keep things at 10 total CR.

 

[tetrasodium]

I have a party of 5x level 4 (warlock/rogue MC, fighter:knight, marsahal:umm, Cleric:healer, Adept:brawler ) &mainly aiming for the low end of "hard" encounters but feel I could easily go higher. If I can convince the party to stop using death saves & easy long rest full recovery or I start using fatigue for more things I think I'll be able to dial it down & still have fights feel meaningful but might be a hard sell with some of this group for now.


editL MM 315 CR6 alpha werewolf is the closest I can find, going by past indicators the group will curb stomp it with ease. Enough regular wolves might make a difference though. I'd suggest having thre wolves switch up so they can't just smash the big guy