D&D General Poll: How tough should 20th Level Fighters be? (MCU edition)

[Flamestrike]

Right, but this is wrong. The hammer is not the source of his power, Thor is the source.
Mjolnir was just a focus, like a wand in Harry Potter.

I didnt say it was the source of his powers. I said that it being the source of his powers was his story arc (he thought it was, but it turned out it wasnt).

 

[Vaalingrade]

OK, lets remove Iron Mans 'magical' gear (his armor) and compare him to a 20th level Fighter.

I mean come on. If MCU Thor gets Magic armor and Mjolnir, our Barbarian gets a Hammer of Thunderbolts (and the girdle and gauntlets, which actually come from Thor in Norse mythology).

The magic item argument is really just an excuse for failures in the class designs.

 

[Rogerd1]

If you listen to some people, all 5e games are superhero games because you don't turn into a cloud of blood and bits when a goblins crits on you anymore and the metagame resource of HP replenishes daily.

Only partially true.

This is 5e version of proper supers, which only partially gets there.

S5E: Superheroic Roleplaying for 5th Edition

A guide for DMs and players—new classes, ancestries and cultures, powers, and all you need to create and play unique DnD superheroes.

www.kickstarter.com

It is why if you want full fantasy supers you switch to M&M 2e or 3e to do it properly.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I mean, we're currently talking about Thor, whose secondary story arc was about his Hammer being the source of his powers (and its certainly an iconic artifact he lugs around).

It's not. (Didn't we already cover this in this thread months ago?) People get confused because in the first movie Odin takes away Mjolnir and depowers Thor. This also means he loses his ability to command Mjolnir. Then later Thor gets his powers back, and can call Mjolnir. But his powers are not dependent on Mjolnir! Sure, it is cool weapon, and he's better with it, but he is a god even without it. In Ragnarok he is about to beat Hulk without Mjolnir.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Only partially true.

This is 5e version of proper supers, which only partially gets there.

S5E: Superheroic Roleplaying for 5th Edition

A guide for DMs and players—new classes, ancestries and cultures, powers, and all you need to create and play unique DnD superheroes.

www.kickstarter.com

It is why if you want full fantasy supers you switch to M&M 2e or 3e to do it properly.

Or Hero.

But basically that argument is for people who don't actually know the genre, but know they can get a negative reaction.

 

[Flamestrike]

The magic item argument is really just an excuse for failures in the class designs.

Are you kidding me?

Fighters are the most nerfed and HR'd class in the game. Literally every DM implements many of the following (common) rules, all of which punish Fighters the most:

GWM or SS gets nerfed
Critical fumbles
Exhaustion on 0HP
Insta death from falling/ lava etc
Silly armor rules (cant sleep in it, cant swim in it)
Setting DC's to do things like climb a rope or wall with handholds.
Not sticking to the adventuring day guidelines for Short rests

Those are all insanely common HR's or Nerfs.

There is nothing wrong with the Fighter class. It's literally the most played class in the game.

 

[Flamestrike]

It's not. (Didn't we already cover this in this thread months ago?) People get confused because in the first movie Odin takes away Mjolnir and depowers Thor. This also means he loses his ability to command Mjolnir. Then later Thor gets his powers back, and can call Mjolnir. But his powers are not dependent on Mjolnir! Sure, it is cool weapon, and he's better with it, but he is a god even without it. In Ragnarok he is about to beat Hulk without Mjolnir.

Go back and read the comment again.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's not. (Didn't we already cover this in this thread months ago?) People get confused because in the first movie Odin takes away Mjolnir and depowers Thor. This also means he loses his ability to command Mjolnir. Then later Thor gets his powers back, and can call Mjolnir. But his powers are not dependent on Mjolnir! Sure, it is cool weapon, and he's better with it, but he is a god even without it. In Ragnarok he is about to beat Hulk without Mjolnir.

Bascially, Thor is hundreds if not thousands of years old and knows nothing about his family, their heirlooms or himself.

Odin and Freya are basically terrible parents.

As evidenced by Freya apparently just... not being there throughout Hela's existence? Is that right? That can't be right.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

OK, lets remove Iron Mans 'magical' gear (his armor) and compare him to a 20th level Fighter.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Are you kidding me?

Fighters are the most nerfed and HR'd class in the game. Literally every DM implements many of the following (common) rules, all of which punish Fighters the most:

GWM or SS gets nerfed
Critical fumbles
Exhaustion on 0HP
Insta death from falling/ lava etc
Silly armor rules (cant sleep in it, cant swim in it)
Setting DC's to do things like climb a rope or wall with handholds.
Not sticking to the adventuring day guidelines for Short rests

Some DMs are bad at things and people force newbies to play the 'simple' class. Okay. So?