D&D 5E If you use thunderstep but teleport less than 10 feet do you take damage?

[Swarmkeeper]

Since shield is cast "when you are targeted by a magic missile" and magic missile has an instantaneous duration, both shield and counterspell can have an instantaneous casting time.

Do you agree?

No. A reaction is not instantaneous. And there is no instantaneous casting time. If there were, the casting time rules and/or the reaction description would say so. You are still conflating casting time and duration.

PHB pg 202: Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.

One more point about the last extract, it shows that the game has a tendancy to be generous towards the players in its interpretation, because it's not fun to waste a ray or a missile on an enemy which would already be dead without it. I know some people will again say that "5e is easy mode", but it's also "5e recognises that the intention of a game is for players to have fun playing it".

This point we can agree on, even if we arrive at it from different angles. Indeed, even though it is from Dungeon World, I really take to heart the Sly Flourish advice that the DM should absolutely "be a fan of the characters".


Finally, I'd just like to say that I am most pleased that both you and @Maxperson reacted favorably to a post of mine and a post of @James Gasik - I feel like there we're finding some common ground here!

 

[Maxperson]

I'm a little annoyed about that rule being in the DMG, but I guess knowing is half the battle, thanks Maxperson. I'm so used to the DMG being terrible, I never check it for rulings on anything, lol.

The opportunity attack rules also support what I have been saying. The opportunity attack can specifically interrupt the trigger of "a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach." It also says that this doesn't happen if the creature teleports, indicating very strongly that you cannot interrupt a teleport.

 

[Maxperson]

No. A reaction is not instantaneous. And there is no instantaneous casting time. If there were, the casting time rules and/or the reaction description would say so. You are still conflating casting time and duration.

PHB pg 202: Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.

A fraction of a second is instantaneous. It's also the amount of time a teleport takes to complete. A fraction of a second. Which is not even remotely close enough to crawl/walk/run away from a Thunderstep before it hits you, readied action or not.

 

[James Gasik]

The opportunity attack rules also support what I have been saying. The opportunity attack can specifically interrupt the trigger of "a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach." It also says that this doesn't happen if the creature teleports, indicating very strongly that you cannot interrupt a teleport.

I do agree that is strong evidence, but come on, WotC! Is it that hard to have rules that spell out what you intend? We shouldn't have to go sifting through the rulebooks with fine toothed combs to find evidence for how the game works.

 

[Lyxen]

No. A reaction is not instantaneous.

I'm sorry, but you would have to prove that.

And there is no instantaneous casting time. If there were, the casting time rules and/or the reaction description would say so. You are still conflating casting time and duration.

And, again, I think I have proven that the casting time of shield is after the magic missile has been cast, and therefore during its instantaneous duration, and so is the casting time of the counterspell targeting the shield.

PHB pg 202: Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
This point we can agree on, even if we arrive at it from different angles. Indeed, even though it is from Dungeon World, I really take to heart the Sly Flourish advice that the DM should absolutely "be a fan of the characters".

Indeed.

Finally, I'd just like to say that I am most pleased that both you and @Maxperson reacted favorably to a post of mine and a post of @James Gasik - I feel like there we're finding some common ground here!

Although we sometimes disagree, it's mostly because we are too similar...

There is a healthy dose of respect in me for @Maxperson, if not necessarily for all his arguments.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

A fraction of a second is instantaneous.

Is it always though? A half second is instantaneous to you? Why didn’t WotC just say a spell casting time of “a reaction” is instantaneous? Maybe I’m missing something, but you now seem to be arguing both sides. Can a reaction spell interrupt a teleport in progress since, as you claim, they are both instantaneous?

It's also the amount of time a teleport takes to complete.

Agreed

A fraction of a second. Which is not even remotely close enough to crawl/walk/run away from a Thunderstep before it hits you, readied action or not.

Also agreed.

 

[Lyxen]

The opportunity attack rules also support what I have been saying. The opportunity attack can specifically interrupt the trigger of "a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach." It also says that this doesn't happen if the creature teleports, indicating very strongly that you cannot interrupt a teleport.

That has nothing to do with the duration, it's a question of crossing the intervening space (or, more precisely, getting out of range why not defending yourself enough, since you can do it by disengaging).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I do agree that is strong evidence, but come on, WotC! Is it that hard to have rules that spell out what you intend? We shouldn't have to go sifting through the rulebooks with fine toothed combs to find evidence for how the game works.

I think you are mistaken.
Look at a any code of law. You will notice that it tries really hard to be absolutely fool proof, covering any corner case...
And still experts find ways to interpret them differently or even finding loopholes...
... and to add injury to insult they are absoluteley inentelligible to non experts and absoluteley boring.

I really don't want such a book as my PHB or DMG...

 

[James Gasik]

I think you are mistaken.
Look at a any code of law. You will notice that it tries really hard to be absolutely fool proof, covering any corner case...
And still experts find ways to interpret them differently or even finding loopholes...
... and to add injury to insult they are absoluteley inentelligible to non experts and absoluteley boring.

I really don't want such a book as my PHB or DMG...

I'm not talking about Habeus Corpus here, just how hard is it to add a word here and there so we don't have 30 page debates about things like this? If you don't want people interfering with teleport spells, just say "hey, you can't do that" in the Ready rules. That's not a corner case, Wizards teleport around all the time, and I'm sure there are individuals who want to do something about it.

And before anyone says anything about word and page count, just remove this from the PHB, that should clear up enough space.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I'm not talking about Habeus Corpus here, just how hard is it to add a word here and there so we don't have 30 page debates about things like this? If you don't want people interfering with teleport spells, just say "hey, you can't do that" in the Ready rules. That's not a corner case, Wizards teleport around all the time, and I'm sure there are individuals who want to do something about it.

And before anyone says anything about word and page count, just remove this from the PHB, that should clear up enough space.

Thing is, the word here and there is not needed. I played for almost 10 years (dndnext included), and did notneven notice that there might be a problem if it is not exactly stated that it is disappearnce -> reappearance...

D&D is a cooperative game, not adversary like magic the gathering, so it does not have to and should not be that strictly coded, because such rules are not fun.