D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Thomas Shey]

I realized sometime in High School that when my players were doing things I didn't like, it was an indication that we weren't playing the game they wanted to play. Having that realization (which probably came from some Dragon article advice - I have no idea now) made me realize that just talking to them about what they wanted instead of trying to force them into the game I wanted was probably going to be more productive.

I realized it after years of using the Hero System experience, which, like a number of games, gives varied experience for doing certain things such as "good roleplaying" and the like.

And what I concluded at one point was "First, this is a cause of extra social stressors. Second, it doesn't seem to actually do the kind of social engineering it seems to be designed for all that consistently. Third, why is it my job to tell people if they're playing right?" And after that I never did it again, at least for anything as strong as experience. I'd already walked away from trying to use in-game sticks a long time ago because, well, really? How is that anything but abuse of power hiding under the lampshade of "trying to make the game run better"?

 

[tetrasodium]

Sorry, I was assuming mature players that didn't pull crap like that. If a player won't play the character, I don't think the GM or the game system should force them to, at that point find new players. No gaming is better than bad gaming.

It's not always that black & white, players have a different view of things than characters do. Jump to 1:21:20

Mearls talks about having a player with a greedy rogue flaw make a charisma save to avoid being taken in by a sleazy merchant trying to sell the players a map that was "obviously a bad idea" even though it led to the adventure. Listen to that and

Spoiler: read what phb125 has to say about inspiration just after explaining BIFTs

Inspiration is a rule the Dungeon Master can use to reward you for playing your character in a way that’s true to his or her personality traits, ideal, bond, and flaw. By using inspiration, you can draw on your personality trait of com passion for the downtrodden to give you an edge in negotiating with the Beggar Prince. Or inspiration can let you call on your bond to the defense of your home village to push past the effect of a spell that has been laid on you.

Ignoring pregens, the GM doesn't choose a character's BIFTs & I don't think there is so much as a hint that the GM should even be consulted on them. Inspiration & BIFTs often gets knocked for feeling tacked on & incomplete excuse to say "it's what my character would do" with zero risk of ever being told "It's what your character would do" even when you know it's a bad idea. You can see a dive into how push mechanics like that can work by looking at Fate's compel mechanics or in this case how it clicks with its trouble aspects

 

[overgeeked]

Sorry, I was assuming mature players that didn't pull crap like that. If a player won't play the character, I don't think the GM or the game system should force them to, at that point find new players. No gaming is better than bad gaming.

Unfortunately for me, that accounts for well over 95% of the players I’ve come across in the nearly 40 years I’ve been at this. The first time I saw more than one PC actually care about the drama for more than a fleeting second or two once every fifth Friday was when I first watched Critical Role.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And if 95% of the players you run into don't like the kind of drama you're offering, then shouldn't there be some reevaluation of the drama being offered? Different solutions being considered?

 

[overgeeked]

It's not always that black & white, players have a different view of things than characters do. Jump to 1:21:20

Mearls talks about having a player with a greedy rogue flaw make a charisma save to avoid being taken in by a sleazy merchant trying to sell the players a map that was "obviously a bad idea" even though it led to the adventure. Listen to that and

Spoiler: read what phb125 has to say about inspiration just after explaining BIFTs

Inspiration is a rule the Dungeon Master can use to reward you for playing your character in a way that’s true to his or her personality traits, ideal, bond, and flaw. By using inspiration, you can draw on your personality trait of com passion for the downtrodden to give you an edge in negotiating with the Beggar Prince. Or inspiration can let you call on your bond to the defense of your home village to push past the effect of a spell that has been laid on you.

Ignoring pregens, the GM doesn't choose a character's BIFTs & I don't think there is so much as a hint that the GM should even be consulted on them. Inspiration & BIFTs often gets knocked for feeling tacked on & incomplete excuse to say "it's what my character would do" with zero risk of ever being told "It's what your character would do" even when you know it's a bad idea. You can see a dive into how push mechanics like that can work by looking at Fate's compel mechanics or in this case how it clicks with its trouble aspects

I wish they'd have kept the more explicitly Fate-like use of inspiration from the playtest.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Unfortunately for me, that accounts for well over 95% of the players I’ve come across in the nearly 40 years I’ve been at this. The first time I saw more than one PC actually care about the drama for more than a fleeting second or two once every fifth Friday was when I first watched Critical Role.

Have you considered finding a core group of friends that are also DnD players and working on that group? If you aren't exaggerating and indeed 95% of your fellow players have been "bad at DnD" then there is something going wrong in your RPG life and that thing isnt a ruleset.

Seriously, I have been gaming with the same core of players for 20+years now and we are friends first and gamers second. Even if what we want session to session or campaign to campaign doesn't align perfectly we still have a solid base of friendship and trust that translates to not being a garbage player.

 

[CleverNickName]

That might be one of the biggest ways that D&D has changed over the decades: the styles of play have changed. How many different ways to play D&D are popular these days?

1. Beer & Pretzels Play: A game that nobody takes too seriously, it's just another game on the shelf that you and your friends play sometimes, or something to do on a Friday night with your friends. Super-casual, half the time nobody remembers the over-arching story (if there even IS such a thing.) "What are we doing tonight?" "Who cares, my rogue heads to the nearest tavern..."

2. Kick In The Door: The roots of our hobby. The game is played as a series of battles, with only enough story and dialogue to string them together. Lots of emphasis on stats and math, players have their character "builds" mapped out to 20 levels but can't remember whether their characters' parents are alive or dead. (Just kidding, they're always dead.) Kick in the door, kill the orc, take its stuff, rest, move to the next door.

3. The Interactive Novel: The characters are the stars, and the campaign setting is theirs to walk over. Every gaming session is another chapter of a long story about great evils that are overcome, ordinary people who become heroes, and terrible villains who rise to power. The story might be heavily-scripted and inflexible (railroad), or it might be malleable and fluid (sandbox), but it is always the most important thing at the table. The story is king.

4. Dress Rehearsal: The focus is on deep roleplaying. Combat (if any) is hand-waved, rushed, or muted so as to not steal the spotlight or pull focus. The players dress in character, speak in character, and behave in-character on the way to the fridge to get another flagon of mead. Because you serve mead at your gaming session. Because it's setting-appropriate. Everyone expects to be playing these same characters for many months, or even years. Lots of overlap with cosplay and LARPing.

5. Internet Influencer: The game is carefully orchestrated to resemble a radio/television program. You have elaborate setting pieces and character stories, monsters of your own invention, and everything is filmed in 4K HD on a Twitch stream or YouTube channel. The game is more about having a large fan base and marketable product, gaining followers, and generating buzz. It's easy for us to look down on this style of play, but it is the single-largest reason why the hobby has grown (and continues to grow) by leaps and bounds. Much respect.

6. The One-Shot: Nobody is heavily invested in their characters, the adventure, or the story. Chances are, nobody at the table will ever play these characters (or campaign setting, or rules, or game) ever again. Anything goes, consequences are rarely weighed, and even the most wild suggestions are entertained with a shrug and "why not?" from the GM. Very similar to "Beer & Pretzels," but FAR more gonzo.

I'm sure there are others.

Thought of a couple more.

7. The Meat Grinder: The whole adventure is a deadly obstacle course, and the object of the game is to survive it. Don't leave home without your ten-foot pole, your bag of ball bearings, and your ladder, and don't even think about sticking your head into any Green Devil frescoes. Every door is a boobytrap, every treasure chest is a mimic, and the floor is an illusion over a spike-filled pit. Your mission is to be the last character standing at the end of the night. Seems like this was a popular playstyle in the 80s, but has fallen out of favor.

8. Historical Reenactment: The campaign is based on real-world history. The DM uses a real-world map. Your character has a historic name that fits the period, the region, and their status. You use real-world technology based on an agreed-upon date, and everything is rigorously reviewed by everyone at the table for accuracy. The Exodus. The Wars of the Roses. The Crusades. Discovery of the New World. There are no dragons, elves, or magic...but that's okay: there are fifty-six different polearms, gunpowder, and the Bubonic Plague. Lots of overlap with the SCA. Gaining in popularity with the advent of the Internet.

 

[Hussar]

I write either the oldest or second oldest (next to Legion of Nothing) superhero webserial on the internet (14 years) and am part of the premier SH genre writers collected, the Pen and Cape Society.

So I ~might~ know a little bit about the genre.

There used to be a ton of civilian side characters before the 90's where they were winnowed down to the point Jon Rogers was lauded roundly for introducing Paco and Brenda plus Jaime's family in Blue Beetle without doing terrible things to him... Then the new 52 inflicted Paco with with the Black Beetle scarab and sent the main character across the entire country to separate him from his family while making Brenda hate him.

This was not an isolated incident. In the Big Two, the only surviving civilian casts are the legacy casts like the Daily Planet crew

I remember reading an interview from Arrow where a returning guest star in one of the later seasons quipped, “What, is everyone super power now?”

So I can see what you mean.

 

[Hussar]

No one said it was. Pure gross.

Exactly. Drama. The complications, conflict, and choices that come from poking at a PC’s NPC connections. It’s great…so of course most players seem allergic to it.

Where is this “most” coming from?

Because from where I’m sitting, the only common denominator in your stories is you.

 

[Hussar]

Interesting that the point about the amount of threat to an npc should relate to the benefit that npc grants the pc.

Not a bad idea.

So what benefit does a little sister commoner NPC grant my character? A place to stay if I happen to be in town? Maybe a handful of copper if I really needed it?

So what’s a “fair” threat for that benefit?

To put it another way. What benefit does Aunt May grant that she should be put in mortal danger?