D&D 5E What is +1 Strength worth?

[Horwath]

There's that, but there's also purposefully widening the power gap and twisting the game to express that gap.

That is why every edition/books should be tested by powergamers/mix-maxers/number crunchers.

We need to see where is breaking point of the game so we can fix it.

Then loremasters and artists can have a solid foundation to do whatever their creative minds think up.

 

[Fenris-77]

+1 Strength in 5e is worth more when:

1. you don't optimize
2. you use lower stats
3. you play classical attrition high encounter D&D.
4. you use fewer variants (feats and multiclassing)
5. you don't play fantastical races with high fantasy racial traits

The more "Old School" your game, the more important that +1 STR at level 1 matters.

The peril is that it doesn't work like it should, which it doesn't. Managing social play is entirely up to the DM and unless they have other experience 5E doesn't have the tools they need to make it work

 

[Lyxen]

That is why every edition/books should be tested by powergamers/mix-maxers/number crunchers.
We need to see where is breaking point of the game so we can fix it.

And this was done for 5e during more playtesting than any game before, and continues being done through UA, which spouted a number of powerfully silly options which were then nerfed for publication.

But there is a point of diminishing return for these efforts, and it's not black and white. 5e has so far been quite successful, and there are few drifts outside of options like feats and multiclass.

 

[Lyxen]

The peril is that it doesn't work like it should, which it doesn't.

The game works mostly as it should, again, as proof, its success. If it did NOT work as it should, who would play it ?

Now, whether it works as it should SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU is another matter, but since it's for you, as a DM, you have all the tools to make it work and if it still does now, why are you still playing it ?

Managing social play is entirely up to the DM and unless they have other experience 5E doesn't have the tools they need to make it work

And since when does social play NEED rules ? Actually most games do NOT have rules for that anyway. So why should 5e need them ? Basic, BECMI and AD&D did not and yet we played as socially as we do with 5e today, without rules, we did not need "experience" back then, and beginners in 5e (and there are millions of them) apparently do not need it either.

 

[Fenris-77]

Games don't need to be tested by minmaxers. First,no game is balanced by that standard. Second, RPGs are mostly played by groups of friends who don't need the power gaming advice. Even games with a significant percieved need to be fair dont actually make the grade. 40K, for example, isn't balanced at all and never has been, it just changes the balance regulay enough to sell armies.

 

[Minigiant]

The peril is that it doesn't work like it should, which it doesn't. Managing social play is entirely up to the DM and unless they have other experience 5E doesn't have the tools they need to make it work

5e was designed this way on purpose.

The issue is that the audience that 5e attracted that makes it the most successful edition happen to not like it.

5e: Suffering from Success

 

[Fenris-77]

The game works mostly as it should, again, as proof, its success. If it did NOT work as it should, who would play it ?

Now, whether it works as it should SPECIFICALLY FOR YOU is another matter, but since it's for you, as a DM, you have all the tools to make it work and if it still does now, why are you still playing it ?



And since when does social play NEED rules ? Actually most games do NOT have rules for that anyway. So why should 5e need them ? Basic, BECMI and AD&D did not and yet we played as socially as we do with 5e today, without rules, we did not need "experience" back then, and beginners in 5e (and there are millions of them) apparently do not need it either.

Do all caps make you feel better? I hope so, because the other option is that they're rude and dismissive. Im quite comfortable in my reading of social play and how that impacts tables, especially as concerns mismatches between system and expecations. Would you prefer reasoned discourse or more shouting? Up to you.

 

[Fenris-77]

5e was designed this way on purpose.

The issue is that the audience that 5e attracted that makes it the most successful edition happen to not like it.

5e: Suffering from Success

No, the audience loves it, that's why it sells. That you and I might not makes no nevermind to WoTC.

 

[Lyxen]

Games don't need to be tested by minmaxers. First,no game is balanced by that standard. Second, RPGs are mostly played by groups of friends who don't need the power gaming advice. Even games with a significant percieved need to be fair dont actually make the grade. 40K, for example, isn't balanced at all and never has been, it just changes the balance regulay enough to sell armies.

That I completely agree with. You don't see powergaming drift and gap in groups of friends (although I would argue that, in this day and age, with all the guides and YouTube channels about "playing a better game" which are a lot about optimisation, it's easier to fall into the trap).

And 4e made a really good effort to be balanced against minmaxers, and it worked very well. It had unfortunately other drawbacks, but from a balance perspective it was way better than any other D&D edition. It's just that, for me, inherent balance is not a strong argument for a TTRPG, as technical balance is totally overshadowed by people, situations, characters, gears, tactics and especially DM's input even if you play a game in which combat figures strongly.

 

[Lyxen]

Do all caps make you feel better?

Not specifically, no, but they drew your attention.

I hope so, because the other option is that they're rude and dismissive.

And it's not the only other option, see above. But I take note, I will use bold underlined red text next time, if it makes you feel better.

Im quite comfortable in my reading of social play and how that impacts tables, especially as concerns mismatches between system and expecations. Would you prefer reasoned discourse or more shouting? Up to you.

I would certainly prefer more reasoned discourse than this post which provides no justification for your claims.