D&D 5E Not Much Ado About Bless

[Oofta]

At one point, every core mechanic of 1e was 'a core mechanic of the best-selling version of D&D'.

Sales aren't quality.

Millions of people seem to disagree. You don't see the kind of year-in-year-out growth with a bad product.

 

[FrogReaver]

Millions of people seem to disagree. You don't see the kind of year-in-year-out growth with a bad product.

I think it's worth noting that you can have a great selling car that has defective airbags. That it's a great selling car doesn't mean that it's airbags must be good.

While I like advantage/disadvantage more than what came before, 5e's sales don't mean that particular part of 5e is good. Likewise bad sales wouldn't mean that particular part of 5e was bad.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Millions of people seem to disagree. You don't see the kind of year-in-year-out growth with a bad product.

I have a Ford Focus whose gas tank can deform during operation, causing the car to stop running at highway speeds.

A bad component doesn't inherently make a bad product and a best seller isn't necessarily the superior product.

Appeal to popularity isn't a good argument.

 

[Oofta]

I think it's worth noting that you can have a great selling car that has defective airbags. That it's a great selling car doesn't mean that it's airbags must be good.

While I like advantage/disadvantage more than what came before, 5e's sales don't mean that particular part of 5e is good. Likewise bad sales wouldn't mean that particular part of 5e was bad.

There's no such thing as a perfect game. That doesn't mean it's poor quality. It's "good enough" quality though or we wouldn't see growth year after year.

I simply disagree with the "success is no indicator of quality". Initial, out of the gate success is no indicator of quality but a decade of continual growth is. That doesn't mean the game is perfect.

 

[FrogReaver]

There's no such thing as a perfect game. That doesn't mean it's poor quality. It's "good enough" quality though or we wouldn't see growth year after year.

I simply disagree with the "success is no indicator of quality". Initial, out of the gate success is no indicator of quality but a decade of continual growth is. That doesn't mean the game is perfect.

The game as a whole is good enough quality. Sure. That doesn’t mean any given component is high quality.

 

[abirdcall]

There's no such thing as a perfect game. That doesn't mean it's poor quality. It's "good enough" quality though or we wouldn't see growth year after year.

I simply disagree with the "success is no indicator of quality". Initial, out of the gate success is no indicator of quality but a decade of continual growth is. That doesn't mean the game is perfect.

Yeah, I think a lot of people just don't know the scope of the popularity.

Every year has sold more than the previous.

It is likely that there are twice the amount of people currently playing than all of the people who played from 1974-2013.

And we are talking about a game that spreads from word of mouth primarily. People play in a game and then start their own game with different friends and so on.

If the core mechanics didn't work people wouldn't be playing it.

 

[Stalker0]

Bless is the strongest cleric spell in the game pound for pound. Every cleric I have seen in my games uses it consistently.

I don’t think it’s OP for the game (because I think clerics aren’t all that great), but it’s certainly OP enough to limit what spells the clerics use.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah I ran into this yesterday, because people keep throwing the "5e is the greatest game ever because so many people play it".

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But every time I come up with an example of something that was popular but not very good, I get told "it's not the same thing" so I decided to just accept that people like what they like and move on before they start saying "maybe if you don't like it, you don't belong here".

 

[Oofta]

The game as a whole is good enough quality. Sure. That doesn’t mean any given component is high quality.

I never said otherwise. However, bounded accuracy is such a core concept of 5E that if it was bad enough to rip out I don't think the game would be as popular as it is.

There's a big difference between "this is some rule I don't care for" and "if I get into a car accident the air bags will fail and I will die". The former is an opinion, if it weren't for the forums I wouldn't know anyone had an issue with bounded accuracy. For that matter there's a big difference between "I don't care for bounded accuracy, I think it could be tweaked" and "bounded accuracy needs to be expunged from the system and never be spoken of again".

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah I ran into this yesterday, because people keep throwing the "5e is the greatest game ever because so many people play it".

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But every time I come up with an example of something that was popular but not very good, I get told "it's not the same thing" so I decided to just accept that people like what they like and move on before they start saying "maybe if you don't like it, you don't belong here".

Argumentum ad populum doesn't apply if you like the popular thing.

Same as, apparently 'you do you'.