D&D 5E Not Much Ado About Bless

[James Gasik]

Probably yes, but only because its less fun with the consistent effect.
But back on the topic. Bless is not broken because it breaks Bounded Accuracy, in the same way Precision Strike, Bardic Inspiration, War Gods Blessing doesn't break Bounded Accuracy just because they stack with each other (You might as well complain about all of them since they grant bigger bonuses than Bless).
But personally, I think Bless is very important to the party, due to the fact its one of the very few ways a PC can shore up their saves. There are too many save or suck effects that can cripple the PC on a failed save. There are some effects that can be a total death knell of the party if every single member fail their save, so Bless is there for that.
Lay off Bless, its fine.

Yeah saving throws is a whole other kettle of fish. I ran into that in my first Tier 3 game. My Fighter encountered a powerful dragon (in Storm King's Thunder) that I needed a 20 to save against. And that wasn't even the top end of save DC's, it's possible to encounter critters that require a 21 to save. If you have any stat of 10 or less, that's just an auto fail if it comes up. Imagine wanting to play a grumpy Dwarf with 9 Charisma for "roleplay reasons" (ie, we have a Bard, I can save points here!) and getting Banished with no possible save!

Believe you me, I was very happy the next game when we had a Cleric who could cast Heroes' Feast!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's as good spell. So what?

 

[DEFCON 1]

Most players aren't power gamers, and thus it isn't an "always-on" spell for most tables. Some Cleric players enjoy using their entire suite of spells and thus don't want to use their Concentration slot on the same number-upper every single day in every single encounter. When you cast and use the exact same pattern of spells and features completely separate from a character's narrative and for no other reason than to maximize numeric efficiency... you pretty much are just playing the so-called "strategic board game" and lose all the aspects of playing character. And I think most who play D&D see that as forsaking an entire half of the game.

 

[TwoSix]

It’s the Concentration slot that keeps it from being overly problematic.

 

[humble minion]

I haven't done the maths, but i suspect it's great when averaged over time, but especially as you gain in levels, how often does your cleric want to be using their concentration slot on a 1st level buff spell when it blocks them using stuff like Banishment or Spirit Guardians? And at higher levels your wizards, sorcerers, bards, druids etc are most likely to be targeting saves rather than ACs, so half of the the spell effect is wasted on them. And your ranger or fighter with Archery combat style, dex 20, and a +2 bow isn't going to need the +1d4 all that often even when they ARE using Sharpshooter.

I often have my paladin using it (I think it's a better paladin spell than a cleric spell), but even then there's a cost. It's an action to cast, whereas the other obvious candidates for a paladins' concentration slots - Shield of Faith, Divine Favour, Compelled Duel for instance - are a bonus action. As a melee character, that often leaves you 30ft further away from the bad guys, and costs you a round of attacks - and that's a big deal in a combat that you didn't see coming. And as a Devotion paladin I'm trying to have Sacred Blade going as often as possible, which does the same job (for attack rolls at least) - and costs no spell slots that i could use for smite, refreshes on a short rest rather than a long one, and competes with Bless for a very limited pre-combat action budget.

It's very good, but it's not a no-brainer.

 

[Umbran]

It's just a thing that boggles me when people jump up and say "bounded accuracy" and "the game is fine" and I'm like, uh...and what about this?

It gives an extra d4, that's not going to break bounded accuracy. Meanwhile, it ties up the caster's concentration.

 

[James Gasik]

What kind of bonus would break bounded accuracy? I'm not a math guy, but I thought the design goal was to replace Advantage/Disadvantage with "fiddly little bonuses and penalties".

 

[Jer]

What kind of bonus would break bounded accuracy? I'm not a math guy, but I thought the design goal was to replace Advantage/Disadvantage with "fiddly little bonuses and penalties".

It was, but they broke that rule early on. At least there aren't as many fiddly bonuses and penalties as there were with 3/4e tho.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What kind of bonus would break bounded accuracy? I'm not a math guy, but I thought the design goal was to replace Advantage/Disadvantage with "fiddly little bonuses and penalties".

"Gives advantage" would be better than +1d4 up until at least +5. More for rogues and crit fishers.

But something is only broken if it is a must have. And I see no evidence to suggest that any parties are struggling if the don't have Bless.

Healing Word is far more of a game changer.

 

[Oofta]

I don't remember the last time I saw bless (or bane) cast. It has a heavy perceived price for what it accomplishes. Not only does it take an action away when most combats only last a handful of rounds, but as others have said, it requires concentration. Especially at lower levels when you have fewer concentration spells you are using one of your precious slots and an action to give a minor power bump to people that may or may not end the combat more quickly than if you had done something more direct. All with a spell you could easily lose if you're damaged in any way. It doesn't feel like a very good trade-off.

Let's say my paladin has bless. That spell slot could also be used as a smite, a resource I decide to expend after I hit. That's an an average 6 extra damage from a smite I won't have. I'm also losing my first attack action which for simplicity I'll assume averages 4 points of damage. I'm losing 2 attacks at 5th level and on. Are we really going to average 10 more points of damage in a combat because of a bless? Maybe. Maybe not. But attacking and smiting on my first round feels more active and effective.

I'm sure someone could run the numbers, but it's going to vary significantly based on opponents and party build. Meanwhile most people seem to go for the bird in the hand rather than the bless two in the bush.