D&D 5E Rime of the Frostmaiden Post-Mortem (Spoilers)

[BenTheFerg]

Hmm, they were specifically calling out how that Justin guy was fixing them, so this sounds like hyperbole.


Actually, I think it's a fairly easy bet that when people buy a campaign from the people who publish the game, they want to buy an exemplary product. This sounds like you can't actually refute their point so instead you're attacking their ability to speak for "folks". If you want to claim that most people wish to spend money to buy a flawed product, I think the burden of proof is on you.

Thanks Blue, Swedish chef, Ancalagon & Greg. Glad the cavalry arrived!

I have been enjoying Rime. But, I am glad I did not run it out of the tin.

Being one of the undead (I am a teacher of 16-18s) + not as young as I used to be + am a parent means I am time poor, and thus would really like a campaign to be ready to run as is. Like Curse of Strahd nearly was or Phandelver. Or stuff from Kobold Press tends to be.
Covid disruption (illness), stress from the pandemic & general fatigue, plus in the UK, being thrown to the wolves by the Govt over excessive workload/ lack of a catchup plan/no extra teachers/no ££, have all been taking their toll on me & the group. Fortunately Rime has a Roll20 module. Unfortunately, uploading stuff, fiddling with content like npc/critter stats, creating new floorplan maps for sandboxing/ 'frostboxing'.... all have added to the time factor... am very glad we are in a dungeon (caves of hunger).... but am aware I need to create new maps for Ythryn. Battle maps that should be in the Roll20 package TBH. Oh well!

Thanks for the support. Discovered the Unfollow button, so have used that, so the person who was arguing for the sake of arguing can't see my posts or me theirs. Seemed like a win win!

Hoping to run either Radiant Citadel or Kobolds Shadow planar adventures when they come out in the summer.

May your dice roll true & folks like JA continue to help us construct fun & intellectually interesting games and

 

[Scott Christian]

However,
1. the failures in the internal logic of their campaigns (which Justin Alexander ruthlessly points out) plus

Sorry Ben, but I really have to call you on this one. A lot of things have a break in logic. A lot. And it's how the DM portrays it that determines whether it is a big deal or not. I will put money you could run a dozen groups through RotFM with skilled DMs and only one or two would be struck by that "failure in the internal logic."
As a DM, you can read it straight through, and that makes a huge difference than playing it for 20 four-hour sessions.

 

[Burnside]

Sorry Ben, but I really have to call you on this one. A lot of things have a break in logic. A lot. And it's how the DM portrays it that determines whether it is a big deal or not. I will put money you could run a dozen groups through RotFM with skilled DMs and only one or two would be struck by that "failure in the internal logic."
As a DM, you can read it straight through, and that makes a huge difference than playing it for 20 four-hour sessions.

My players consistently spot the plot holes in WotC's official adventures and I am frequently in the position of having to patch those holes so that they don't come off as "big deals" to the players. If I ran most of the adventures as written, my players would become disengaged and frustrated by the holes.

 

[Scott Christian]

My players consistently spot the plot holes in WotC's official adventures and I am frequently in the position of having to patch those holes so that they don't come off as "big deals" to the players. If I ran most of the adventures as written, my players would become disengaged and frustrated by the holes.

That may be true. I am just speaking from my experience, the "jarring plot holes" can be found in every single adventure path written since 4e. Anyone can spot it reading through the books. Playing on the other hand often has a way of obscuring those holes. And with a tiny bit of DM patchwork, they are even harder to find.

 

[Retreater]

That may be true. I am just speaking from my experience, the "jarring plot holes" can be found in every single adventure path written since 4e. Anyone can spot it reading through the books. Playing on the other hand often has a way of obscuring those holes. And with a tiny bit of DM patchwork, they are even harder to find.

That's true - but it was a decision for the author(s) of Rime of the Frost Maiden to write the Ten Towns have been locked in eternal night and winter for "years." It's not like it was an accidental choice - like they meant "months" instead of "years."
Why, as a writer, would one choose something like that? Because it would be more mysterious? It would seem more of a reason to motivate the party? (Even though the party is supposed to trek around and do pointless side quests for the first half of the book.)
It was a decision. And the writers should have known that it was illogical, and by that extension, some DMs would need to change it. So why put it in there?
Obvious issues that need DM work, even if it requires only a little bit of DM finesse, should be caught by the writers and editors.

 

[Swedish Chef]

That's true - but it was a decision for the author(s) of Rime of the Frost Maiden to write the Ten Towns have been locked in eternal night and winter for "years." It's not like it was an accidental choice - like they meant "months" instead of "years."
Why, as a writer, would one choose something like that? Because it would be more mysterious? It would seem more of a reason to motivate the party? (Even though the party is supposed to trek around and do pointless side quests for the first half of the book.)
It was a decision. And the writers should have known that it was illogical, and by that extension, some DMs would need to change it. So why put it in there?
Obvious issues that need DM work, even if it requires only a little bit of DM finesse, should be caught by the writers and editors.

The time frame for the weather is one of the larger plot holes for us. Another is that the three largest towns, all supposedly led by good aligned NPCs, have somehow managed to convince the entire population base that live sacrifices are necessary for their survival. Despite 7 other towns sacrificing "warmth" and foodstuffs with the exact same non-results.

Honestly, the entire party wants to stop Auril and then go to war against those three towns! And, as my character has just been elected Speaker in Good Mead, we just wind up doing it to!

 

[BenTheFerg]

Sorry Ben, but I really have to call you on this one. A lot of things have a break in logic. A lot. And it's how the DM portrays it that determines whether it is a big deal or not. I will put money you could run a dozen groups through RotFM with skilled DMs and only one or two would be struck by that "failure in the internal logic."
As a DM, you can read it straight through, and that makes a huge difference than playing it for 20 four-hour sessions.

You are going to 'call me out'? For spouting heresy? For overcharging? For lying like my PM in Parliament?

Yes, I spotted the flaws, as did others in Rime & other campaigns (I wrote it in the plural, the worst offenders being Descent into Avernus & Dragon Heist).

All I am/ others are asking for is that WotC, who are the megacorp of Rpg companies, sort this out since it improves player & GM experience:
A. Not all GMs are experienced like you Scott - read earlier thread
B. Some are like me time poor
C. Some errors are so numerous & fundamental they make running it difficult/ impossible (I am referring here to BG: DiA & W: DH not Rime which is mainly fixable) . Granted, JA has done remixes of 2... these are longer than the originals. Without his help you would've been better off writing your own campaign. You've wasted your money.

Other campaigns, eg the dungeon crawls of the Abomination Vaults for PF2e (coming to 5e later this year & which is massive & epic!) or the Scarlet Citadel don't have these glaring problems. Neither does the insanely massive Masks of Nyarlathotep for Call of Cthulhu.

I don't see why a larger company like WotC can't be held to the same standards of less wealthy game companies. If they can make sure their products are internally consistent within the rules of the game, why not WotC?

On issue of games set in the cold, 2 Call of Cthulhu campaigns come to mind. Both worked really hard at realism in their game simulation of the North & South Poles: 'Beyond the Mountains of Madness' is one, and the other by Pagan Publishing 'Walker in the Wastes'. Neither had the problems Rime has with realistically portraying the effects of the cold. Both thoroughly researched.

I don't understand why you are complaining at me! All I am asking for is better editing of the game in terms of does it make sense/ hold together or will it collapse if played by anyone with an IQ higher than 10 year old?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The time frame for the weather is one of the larger plot holes for us. Another is that the three largest towns, all supposedly led by good aligned NPCs, have somehow managed to convince the entire population base that live sacrifices are necessary for their survival. Despite 7 other towns sacrificing "warmth" and foodstuffs with the exact same non-results.

Honestly, the entire party wants to stop Auril and then go to war against those three towns! And, as my character has just been elected Speaker in Good Mead, we just wind up doing it to!

As I have pointed out several times, the fact that the Ten Towns has survived for years of eternal winter proves the sacrifices DO work. Auril, in her role as preserver, is preserving the towns. Not to mention she is using the sacrifices to power her divine batteries.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Other campaigns, eg the dungeon crawls of the Abomination Vaults for PF2e (coming to 5e later this year & which is massive & epic!) or the Scarlet Citadel don't have these glaring problems.

Played Abomination Vaults. It absolutely has these same glaring problems. Including a completely stocked dungeon that has never been explored that is 15-minutes from a medium sized town on the most densely populated island in Golarion and several hundred apex predators living within a single complex in apparent balance.

 

[Azuresun]

• Revel's End prison is such a cool idea. Too bad there's nothing going on there in terms of having an adventure. Also, it has working magical light and heat and a working port - should be flooded with refugees from the Ten Towns. Somebody will write a great adventure for this location.

The one I have in mind was Avarice attempting a prison break with the cult and some summoned yugoloths (which the PC's might be on either side of), to recruit Gant to her side.