D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[Composer99]

I don't know. If all the creatures in the artwork lacked skin, it would probably turn me off to the game.

It'd be like those museum exhibits with the plastinated organs and stuff.

Actually, that sounds like a great idea for some kind of modded flesh golem. Better write that down.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Looking at the Battle Master/Knight of Solomnia thing. By taking all 4 Solomnia feats and 2 Martial Adept Feats, you end up with every single maneuver known, 8 Superiority Dice usable on any of the maneuvers and that refresh with a short rest, and 12 Superiority Dice usable on only 4 maneuvers(so make them good choices) and that refresh on long rest. You still have three ASIs for other feats or stat increases. This is at 18th level of course.

All the Dice would still refresh on a short rest if it’s a battle master.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the problem is that every time anyone says “what would a sword and sorcery specific product be like” all that’s offered is art. Besides feeling targeted by the art, what else is needed?

To me the crux of the problem is

Everything you need to run basic Sword and Sorcery is in the 5th edition PHB, MM, and DMG.

Sword and Sorcery is mostly tone, feeling, and raca/class restrictions. There's nothing to sell but lorebooks and adventures for it. And half the fans of it already have those.

The core rules were written with S&S in mind. No additional mechanics are needed for themeless Sword and Sorcery. The barbarian is even written with a nekkid AC feature.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

When Greyhawk or Dark Sun comes out you can get your Sword and Sorcery themed settings.

 

[Medic]

What's missing from the game that prevents Sword & Sorcery, that isn't just art?
As my 5e campaign launched with nearly no magic and just 3 races I'm interested in hearing what more was needed

Nothing. Everyone is free to do as they please with the game. This is a discussion pertaining specifically to the official content that Wizards publishes, products published by Wizards/TSR in the past, and in the case of myself and a few others, what they would not be willing to publish. Some people (whom I needn't point out) are incensed about this topic, and just happened to see this as a chance to vocalize their discontent.

Scribe is using "warriors with amoral motives adventuring for profit in a generally unpleasant world" (such as Dark Sun) as an example of something WotC has distanced themselves from. Also, art like this.

They haven’t made a sword & sorcery specific product, but there’s nothing to prevent you from playing in such a game.

I know. My stance since the beginning of this thread has been that WotC is clearing out ideas that would not appeal to their target demographic in official content, not that D&D is being "ruined" or that people are somehow being barred from running whatever type of game they want.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Everything you need to run basic Sword and Sorcery is in the 5th edition PHB, MM, and DMG.

I think that’s largely true and it’s a good point.

I don’t know if I’d call it a problem, though.

I know. My stance since the beginning of this thread has been that WotC is clearing out ideas that would not appeal to their target demographic in official content, not that D&D is being "ruined" or that people are somehow being barred from running whatever type of game they want.

I don’t know. I think their default take leans much more toward heroic fantasy than to sword and sorcery. But I don’t know if that means they’re actively clearing out ideas. Other than not including art that’s emblematic of the S&S genre, everything else is still there.

 

[Oofta]

Is there a consistent definition of Sword & Sorcery? Because to me it's more than cheese and beef-cake art. To quote wikipedia:

... the consensus characterizes it with a bias toward fast-paced, action-rich tales set in a quasi-mythical or fantastical framework. Unlike high fantasy, the stakes in sword and sorcery tend to be personal, the danger confined to the moment of telling.[5] Settings are typically exotic, and protagonists often morally compromised.[6]​

​

Many sword and sorcery tales have turned into lengthy series of adventures. Their lower stakes and less-than world-threatening dangers make this more plausible than a repetition of the perils of epic fantasy. So too does the nature of the heroes; most sword-and-sorcery protagonists, travellers by nature, find peace after adventure deathly dull.[7]​

​

The big difference seems to be the focus of the campaign, although the difference between it and heroic fantasy ... as opposed to epic fantasy.

 

[Minigiant]

I think that’s largely true and it’s a good point.

I don’t know if I’d call it a problem, though.

It's a problem to some because it means WOTC doesn't need to return to them quickly or repetitively. And they may feel abandoned or ignored.

 

[Malmuria]

Yes yes, bow to our capitalist overlords, thank them for providing the goods we need to distract from the fact the universe owes us nothing.

I suppose I should be happy with what I've been offered.

Why does it have to be specifically one company, wotc, that provides people with these options? There is no shortage of 3rd party publishers for 5e, let alone the wealth of other rpgs out there. I can understand that the aesthetic of wotc products are not all-inclusive of everything that is out there. I don't know if they are aiming at a particular demographic at the exclusion of others, but they are making choices based brand identity and what they think will be most popular. Corpo's gonna do corpo stuff.

I do get an undercurrent of bitterness and resentment from people who don't see their ideal aesthetic in these products, and that's weird but also unfortunate. I haven't bought a 5e product since mtof, but I'm not bitter about it, I just take my $ and time elsewhere.

Everything you need to run basic Sword and Sorcery is in the 5th edition PHB, MM, and DMG.

However commercialized, it is a hobby built on homebrew and individual creation. You don't even need all that; just get the basic rules or srd and cap the level at 6.

 

[Scribe]

Why does it have to be specifically one company, wotc, that provides people with these options?

Because that is the topic at hand. I noted, yes there are third party options, or options within prior editions to mine, or simply use.