D&D 5E What is balance to you, and why do you care (or don't)?

[GMforPowergamers]

Fighter's hit just as well as anyone else, since they arent even allowed to get a higher proficiency bonus than the guys who study magic. For all that vast fighter training, they aren't any better at using a dagger than a wizard with the same stats. Harder to kill/disable? He has one of the worst save setups so 1 more HP/level doesn't really cut it.

Valor Bards wear armor, get 2 attacks, cast full spells, get a ton of USEFUL abilities, etc. Apparently magic is sooo easy to learn that the bard can get almost all of the fighter's stuff, a massive amount of bard stuff, more skills, expertise, AND full casting!

Face it, the fighter is the equivalent of the Arby's shift manager that peaked in highschool. Fighters suck.

yeah imagine if fighteers got weapon experitise... like skill expertise you double your prof with chosen weapons.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

yeah imagine if fighteers got weapon experitise... like skill expertise you double your prof with chosen weapons.

Bounded accuracy probably couldn’t handle it.

And I’m not a fan of how the fighting styles work, but those are thematically supposed to represent the fighter’s expertise with weapons. Granted, some other classes get those too and they probably shouldn’t. Also I’d prefer if fighters were just more competent with all weapons instead of being pigeonholed into one style from the get go.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fighter's hit just as well as anyone else, since they arent even allowed to get a higher proficiency bonus than the guys who study magic. For all that vast fighter training, they aren't any better at using a dagger than a wizard with the same stats. Harder to kill/disable? He has one of the worst save setups so 1 more HP/level doesn't really cut it.

Valor Bards wear armor, get 2 attacks, cast full spells, get a ton of USEFUL abilities, etc. Apparently magic is sooo easy to learn that the bard can get almost all of the fighter's stuff, a massive amount of bard stuff, more skills, expertise, AND full casting!

Face it, the fighter is the equivalent of the Arby's shift manager that peaked in highschool. Fighters suck.

Fighters were better in the TSR era, when they ironically had fewer special features but demonstrably better numbers in certain areas, and casters were physically weaker and had more restrictions.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Bounded accuracy probably couldn’t handle it.

I'm not so sure... but okay 1.5x

And I’m not a fan of how the fighting styles work, but those are thematically supposed to represent the fighter’s expertise with weapons. Granted, some other classes get those too and they probably shouldn’t. Also I’d prefer if fighters were just more competent with all weapons instead of being pigeonholed into one style from the get go.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Fighters were better in the TSR era, when they ironically had fewer special features but demonstrably better numbers in certain areas, and casters were physically weaker and had more restrictions.

Well, they also, y'know...became landed nobility, something none of the other classes could do. That's pretty unique and also, y'know, really powerful. What with all the retainers and taxes and maybe even legislating.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Fighters were better in the TSR era, when they ironically had fewer special features but demonstrably better numbers in certain areas, and casters were physically weaker and had more restrictions.

in 2e a fighter with weapon speclization and no str bonus with a melee weapon got +1/+2 and a 20 thac0 starting... so they had an adjusted thac0 of 19 meaning they hit an AC 3 (pretty good AC) on a 16+
a wizard with no str bonus had a thac0 20 and no adjustment so they hit that same AC with a 17
(not much at 1st level) but at every level the fighter got 1 better to hit. Wizards improved 1 every 3 levels

so level 2 it is a 15+ compared to a 17+ and level 3 is 14+ compaaired to 16+ and level 4 is 13+ compared to that 16+ exct

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well, they also, y'know...became landed nobility, something none of the other classes could do. That's pretty unique and also, y'know, really powerful. What with all the retainers and taxes and maybe even legislating.

That is one interesting aspect that has been removed from later editions. I get that some people don’t want that and prefer their characters to remain freely-roaming vagabonds, but temporal authority would be a good alternative path to have for those who don’t want their high level martials to become mythic heroes with superhuman powers.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well, they also, y'know...became landed nobility, something none of the other classes could do. That's pretty unique and also, y'know, really powerful. What with all the retainers and taxes and maybe even legislating.

Absolutely. I'm all in favor of that coming back.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That is one interesting aspect that has been removed from later editions. I get that some people don’t want that and prefer their characters to remain freely-roaming vagabonds, but temporal authority would be a good alternative path to have for those who don’t want their high level martials to become mythic heroes with superhuman powers.

a feat like 3e had, or subclass choices like the middle earth book has could work well for this

 

[Micah Sweet]

a feat like 3e had, or subclass choices like the middle earth book has could work well for this

Feats compete with each other and with ASIs, so I'd rather not have it be there. The subclass option could work potentially.