D&D 5E What is balance to you, and why do you care (or don't)?

[GMforPowergamers]

Oddly enough that almost never happens here; and this with what can otherwise be a pretty argumentative crew sometimes.

Reason: everything in the treasury (including magic items!) is evaluated and priced on returning to town, each PC gets a value share of the total; and players-as-PCs then claim items from the treasury up to what they can afford through that share and-or other previously-held resources. Conflicting claims are settled by a roll-off.

i have never outside of a con seen a roll off, and we never break down costs (I mean 99% of the time we are carrying 100x magic item value what we have in gems/coins

So in this case, if both the Wiz and the Fighter claimed the flight device they'd just roll off to see who got it; with the loser getting more cash to compensate - e.g. if each character's share is 10000 and the device is worth 7500, the winner would get the device + 2500 while the loser would get 10000.

except again... this means it isn't balancing the fighter if teh wizard can just roll higher

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Use Magic Device is the 13th level feature of the Rogue's Thief subclass.

oh... thank you that is pretty useless. I have not seen a past level 11 of either of the martial classes in game... so that is well past where someone would put up with a non caster... if you could get it at level 5 that could be cool

 

[Lanefan]

i have never outside of a con seen a roll off, and we never break down costs (I mean 99% of the time we are carrying 100x magic item value what we have in gems/coins

And that's why you're ending up with an imbalanced result: the characters aren't each getting a fair share nor a fair chance to end up with any given item.

If you don't a) break down costs and values and then b) divide evenly by value with a fair claiming system open to all, it's utterly inevitable that some characters will quickly become hella wealthier (and thus more powerful; in D&D wealth almost directly equates to power) than others; be it by persuasion (in-character or at-table) or by just the way things fall. I've seen it. It's bad news.

except again... this means it isn't balancing the fighter if teh wizard can just roll higher

The wizard isn't going to roll higher every time, is she? And there's still balance, in that even if the Wizard wins the roll the Fighter gets more cash in compensation, which can then (one hopes!!!) be used to commission construction of - or outright buy, if your game supports such - items more to his liking.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

And that's why you're ending up with an imbalanced result: the characters aren't each getting a fair share nor a fair chance to end up with any given item.

I qustion this... becuse we don't find many imbalances when we all play spell casters.

If you don't a) break down costs and values and then b) divide evenly by value with a fair claiming system open to all, it's utterly inevitable that some characters will quickly become hella wealthier (and thus more powerful; in D&D wealth almost directly equates to power) than others; be it by persuasion (in-character or at-table) or by just the way things fall. I've seen it. It's bad news.

again that isn't my experience. WE give the items to the person the group things should have it. Sometimes that means giving the +1 ring prot to the one with the lowest AC (highest in 2e) sometimes it just goes to who has a slot open and wants it. Sometimes that means we give the +2 shadow blend studded leather to the rogue, who puts his bracers of armor into the pot and the monk gets them, who then gives the fighter his ring +1 so all three go up in AC.

The wizard isn't going to roll higher every time, is she?

no, but the very fact that she can shows that this sisn't 'fighter getting the better'. I can imagine a game where she does though... or one that the fighter does everytime, and I assume most of the time its 50/50ish. however even that...

you start a game at 3rd level with a bladesinger wizard hexblade warlock twilight cleric and battle master fighter. no one starts with any items and you find +1 plate and a +2 flame tongue Greatsword and give both to the fighter... that is pretty awesome for the fighter...

but you are as likely to find +1 chain shirt that goes to the hexblade and a +2 defender longsword goes to the wizard...

this doesn't seem balanced as much as 'can kinda be balanced if luck and/or everyone forces it... still better then 3e

And there's still balance, in that even if the Wizard wins the roll the Fighter gets more cash in compensation, which can then (one hopes!!!) be used to commission construction of - or outright buy, if your game supports such - items more to his liking.

 

[Maxperson]

oh... thank you that is pretty useless. I have not seen a past level 11 of either of the martial classes in game... so that is well past where someone would put up with a non caster... if you could get it at level 5 that could be cool

13th level seems high for that ability. I'd probably stick it at 9th, since 3rd level seems low and you don't get a subclass feature in-between.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Don't the Main Characters (ie casters) also get magic items?

Yes? Is that bad? Who is being locked out by having everyone participate?

 

[Vaalingrade]

"There is a balance issue between magic vs non-magic characters."

"Have they tried being magic?"

 

[James Gasik]

"There is a balance issue between magic vs non-magic characters."

"Have they tried being magic?"

Heh. Pretty much. Like I said, if you think there's a problem, WotC has an answer for you. Be magical!

If you think there's a problem and don't want to be magical...ERROR LINE NOT FOUND DOES NOT COMPUTE.

 

[Helldritch]

I have never played 1e more then a throw away game (and even then 15ish years ago)

and again that is what 22, 25 year old rules? try again

I have faith that I am doing okay by new blood standards. I started to see more newbies playing warlocks then fighters before Covid. I think I am on the right side of asking for change with this

1ed had its short comings. Just as any edition has.
I have no problems to have people play martials exactly because I have a mix of narrative and gritty styles. By enforcing the 6-8 encounters, with varied types of monsters, casters must hold back and fight with cantrips, giving martials a chance to shine almost naturally. With slow healing, some fights means that characters and monster might start to take the dodge action, the help action and even shove, push and grab. All things that are in the rules but that a lot of DM do not use.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Why would slow healing mean the mounters take the dodge action? They're still only going to exist for that one combat. It's not like they're going to be punished with a boring convalescence period if they take too much damage.